The 10-Spot Strategy | Michael Richwein | The Sean Trace Show

In this episode of The Sean Trace Show, I sat down with Michael Richwein - fractional operations leader, people strategist, and published poet, for one of the most honest conversations I've had on this show. 

We get into the real reason most people can't make a decision and stick with it, and it goes way deeper than willpower. Michael breaks down the Wound, Lie, Agreement, Vow cycle - a framework that explains how unhealed past experiences quietly drive our indecision, our stagnation, and the quiet desperation so many people are living in without even realizing it.

We also talk about decision fatigue, why identity drives behavior far more than motivation ever will, and how to find the kind of community that actually holds you accountable. Michael shares the story behind his seven-year accountability brotherhood, his two published books, and the phrase he lives by every single day “for the good and for the glory”.

What's the one decision you've been sitting on that you already know the answer to, and what's actually been stopping you from making it?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Uh, I used to think this had to be within the four walls of the church. I used to think this had to be in ministry. And then when I moved out of ministry and into the marketplace, um, I realized, like, hey, this doesn't have to stay within the four walls of church. But like I can be, I don't need the title of pastor to be a pastor. God has put a pastoral heart in me. And I don't need to be in ministry to do ministry. And my life is ministry. Uh, my my heart is that my my life would be the evidence of God's love. So every interaction, conversation that I have, um, God's love gets to spill out over in that. And um, I think that's that's the like what is most important, the WMI, what matters most, what's most important, and allowing that to be the beacon or be the direction of uh of my life. And that's that's what leads me each and every single day when I wake up. Uh, and each and every day when I put my head down on the pillow, I get to I get to know that I did something that wasn't just for me, but it was for a cause much greater than myself.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Well, welcome everybody back to the Sean Trace Show. I've got an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Yeah, yeah. Thanks, Sean. I appreciate it. Uh my name is Michael Richwine. I'm from the Boston, Massachusetts, New England area, kind of been all over down south, Birmingham, Alabama, a little bit west and a little bit of everywhere in between, and I'm back up in New England now. And um we just had our first child. He's seven months old. We love him uh more than I could ever imagine. And uh just trying to balance the the um the dual role, if you will, of being the provider of our home and being present with my son. Um, and I do uh some fractional operation work and then people operations as well. I work over at the Health Institute with Dr. X, uh, really providing a service to our people functions, HR-related initiatives and beyond. Uh, and I really love what I do day in and day out.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

That's awesome, man. Well, you know, there's a lot to unpack there because it's like you're you're you're working with people in so many different capacities, you know. And like when I looked into your background, you know, you've worked in a lot of different areas. You've worked in fitness, you've worked in faith, and you've worked in business, you know. Can I ask you, like, in your opinion, what does one have that actually changes things for people, you know, and helps make their life better?

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Yeah, yeah. I mean, um, that that that's such a uh gosh, to unpack that, right? Um, if I were to answer that as concisely as I can, I would say uh decisiveness. Uh, know where you're going, have vision for your life, and then make a decision. Um, I've heard it said, especially in the functional space, that indecision or being on the fence about a decision is actually what leads to internal conflict in the body and creates disease, disorder, so on and so forth. Because our body's stuck in this place of ambiguity or unknown. Um, and we are creatures that need to have a um a focus and we need to have a next step. We need to have direction. So I would say decision, decisiveness, if you will, uh is I think the the um the greatest needle moving habit that we can have uh to have impact inside of the sphere of our influence, uh, make a difference inside of our purpose and beyond. I love that.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

I I I love my ball. I'm gonna throw under the bus here for a little bit. My mom was always indecisive, especially about vehicles. I remember this growing up. She would get a car and then she would waver like, should I do this? Should I upgrade? Should I keep this? Should I try to keep this car going? Should I step back? And what ended up happening was that that cycle caused her to get to the point where the car would get a major problem. Whereas if she had made a decision earlier, it would have helped her out, you know. And I I think that it's something that we see in everyday life. You know, and I'm my question is is like, I think I have an idea. People are afraid of change, but I'd love to ask you like, what's the real reason most people cannot make a decision and stick with it? You know?

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yeah, yeah. I think you're on to something too, right? It's afraid of change. But even beyond that, I would say it's afraid of making the wrong decision. So we don't make any decision. We stay in stagnation, in stuckness because the devil we know is better than the devil we don't, right? Um, and I've seen this so many times with family members, friends, peers, colleagues, fill in the blank, being in that position of having a decision to make, but not being able to make that decision because we're looking for timing to line up perfectly. Or looking for the opportunity to um to multiply as it's seized, if you will. Uh, whereas I think the the root of all of this is that it becomes emotional. Um, and there's such a charge to it that we're that we're fearful of making the wrong decision and ruining our life. Right. Uh, but the reality is we can take away or de-escalate that emotional charge. And rather than a decision being good or bad, having a label to it, it just is. Um, and there's no wrong decision. We can make a decision and it might not pan out in the way that we want it to, but we're never stuck and we can always pivot, we can always recalibrate, and we can always make a new or another decision that moves us in the direction or the trajectory of where it is that we actually want to be. But again, it begins with vision. So again, as you, as you alluded to, uh, I have a background in ministry and in leading in the faith community. And one of my favorite scriptures is, and it goes like this, it says, where there is no vision that people will perish. So uh I think it correlates all back to this idea of having vision for your life, having vision for yourself and having a picture, a depiction of where it is you want to be, what you want to be doing, what that looks like for yourself. And then you reverse engineer that. What do I need to do today to set myself up for trajectory tomorrow or to lead myself close in the direction of where it is that I want to be?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

I love that because you know, it's like when we can sit there and reverse engineer that and work our ways backwards from something, it's a lot easier to make those decisions. And I do think that there's like, if you look at humans from a very like basic level, you know, you think about us being out walking in the savannas or the jungles of Southeast Asia when humankind was like coming up, you know, you make a wrong move and you get eaten by a lion. And you know, we are not surrounded by lions and the rest of our in our lives in these days, but we we are surrounded by tough bosses or a difficult job or you know, challenges at home or at school. And those those punishment scenarios can feel as scary to people at times. But I one of the things that I think about is like I think that chronic indecision comes with such a cost, you know, and that people don't realize how much of a cost it comes with. Because, you know, if you stay stuck, let's talk about like going back to the gym. Someone wants to get back in shape, you know. So you sit there and you're like, Well, I don't know. I I want to get back in shape. I have this goal, I've got this vision, but there's this gym up the street, and it's you know, 25 bucks a month or 50 bucks a month, whatever it might be. I don't know if I can, or there's this gym, or there's this tie boxing place. And if you don't pick any of them, there's one thing that is guaranteed, you're not gonna get back in shape, you know. But if you pick one of them, even if it's not perfect, you're gonna get be in a better place than you're at right now. And then maybe you're gonna be more informed to go, you know what? Wasn't quite what I was looking for, but I've sure got a better idea about what I want in the next level. But you know, that chronic indecision definitely is going to cause you to have some negative problems in the long run, you know?

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Yeah. Yeah, I love that illustration too, because what that does for us is number one, data collection. We're exploring different opportunities or options that are in front of us, collecting data on what works for us, what doesn't. But then also it's it's habit formation because you're becoming the person who attends the gym. You're becoming a person who prioritizes fitness, becoming a person who fills in the blank, but now that person starts to do the behaviors and the actions that that person would do. So not only are you collecting data to make a decision for yourself that aligns with your interests or your values or fill in the blank, but you're also forming that habit along the way.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

I love that. And that's one of the things I think that I love that you said you become that person. Like I don't see myself as a Muay Thai like practitioner, but I go to the Muay Thai gym three days a week. And I've been doing that for two, three years. And like there's at one point in time, you're like, hang on, I do Muay Thai. I am a Muay Thai, you know, practitioner. And like, but there's this point where you suddenly shift and you see it in yourself, you know, and it's like, oh hey, I I do that, you know. And you see that. We was talking to someone the other day, um, and one of my guests was like, I just joined Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. And I was like, good job, you know, you are now in the arena, you are now in that field, you have now started something, and that's way better than sitting at it looking from the outside. And one of the things that I thought about is like, I want to ask you this too, because I get people waiting and being thoughtful. And being thoughtful is one thing, but you know, like, hey, I for me, I love striking. I love, you know, I have I I know that I love grappling too, but I I got a black belt in judo, love it to pieces. You know, it's one of my core things, but I love the striking now. I love sitting there doing some stand-up, you know, for for Muay Thai. So that's one of the things I did, but I thought about it and being thoughtful versus indecision, you know. Uh do you have any idea like what how people can not fall into overanalyzing?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

Yeah, I think there's a difference between being thoughtful and being strategic, right? Thoughtful can oftentimes lead us into analysis paralysis if we're only sitting in that space of um either introspection or inflection, whatever it might be. But um, I want to even come back a bit further to the illustration you shared about um when that clicked for you of like, I'm a I do my tie, I'm a my tie guy. Like that's who I am. That's what I, it's part of what I do. And I think when we start to develop that habit, we start to develop that identity, we create that that that association at an identity level that this is something that I do, this is a person that I am. Um, we start to take the decision out of the deciding, if you will. Um, I think there are so many decisions to be made in society today. There's so much information to collect. It said that, gosh, I forget the statistic. I want to say it was because of social media and technology, et cetera, we consume about 175 newspapers worth of information every day now, uh, comparatively to uh years ago, where we were we were designed to live inside of communities of 150 people. And we weren't supposed to know the news that was going on in the other side of the world, but we're supposed to be within the pocket of our nucleus. And so I think that we have decision fatigue because we're deciding on so many things. We're comparing them to decisions that others have made as well. So um, even more than how it is that we make a decision, I want to even emphasize how we don't make a decision. Um, we take the deciding out of the decision so we can spend our yeses and spend our energy on the decisions that do matter. But I'm not making a decision as to whether or not I'm going to the gym today. That's not something I wake up and I'm like, all right, am I gonna do my fitness? It's like, no, that's who I am. It's part of what I do. That's already checked off the box. I'm not gonna make a decision on how am I gonna treat my nutrition today. I know already ahead of time, like I've prepped my food, I've prepared in advance, and I have a sort of say menu, roughly, if you will, off the top of my head. And I'm like, these are the things that I'm going to be consuming over the course of the day because I want optimal experience and I want the best possible outcome for myself from a body composition, from an energetic perspective and more, cognitive function, clarity beyond. But when I make those decisions in advance, the kind of husband and father that I want to be, I can make the other decisions that come along that are maybe more nuanced, that I haven't predetermined, that aren't given possibilities for me to make, take the deciding out of that decision. But now because I've already made those preemptive decisions, I don't have decision fatigue and I can actually make an educated uh decision around the idea or the topic or the challenge that's presented to me.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

I love that. Because I think that, you know, one of the things too is it's like that being proactive versus reactive, you know? And like what you're pointing out is like I see so many people that they are reacting their way through life. And they're just like, they're it's one, they get knocked down, they get hit here, they get here, and they're just trying to bounce between things. And I think one of the things that's really powerful is when people can see the power of their own choice, you know, like I am going to make this stand, do this thing, and it's gonna have an effect on my life. And if you can really, really, really um, you know, think about it, it will make a change, but you gotta step up, you know. And you know, I I wonder if like people are running from something too, you know, like you've coached a lot of people. What's something that you see a lot of people kind of avoiding, you know?

SPEAKER_00 14:01

More than a shared experience or a shared uh, how do I say it? A shared theme that folks are avoiding. I think more than anything, it's their past. It's some sort of past experience that they've endured, and now they're avoiding that at all costs. And there's a framework for that. It's called the wound lie agreement vow. Ultimately, what it says is that we've all experienced some sort of wound in our past. And then from that wound, we believe a lie about ourselves. We believe a lie about the world, we believe a lie about something relevant to the wound. And then we make an association. That's the agreement, the vow, or I'm sorry, the agreement with the identity of the lie, if you will. Um, and then we make a vow from there. And that vow is I'll do everything in my power in order to never experience that pain, that wound again. And that's what I believe that we're running from. That's what creates indecision. That's what it is that I believe makes it so challenging for us to get off of the fence because we're so petrified of experiencing that one thing that hurt us years ago. That's our own baggage and our own trauma, et cetera. There's a book. You've probably heard the name, The Body Keeps Score. And it talks about how there are flesh holdings, there's literal energetic um and nerve responses that are inside of our body that are making associations to these feelings or these experiences, or these, uh, maybe you've even heard this phrase too, the emotional anchoring. So sounds, sense, smells, things of the world that bring us right back to those moments of hurt or pain. And so I think more than anything, um we're we're hiding from or we're fearful of experiencing that pain again, uh, whatever that pain might be for each of us. And that's kind of that um that that nuanced layer to it, where it's not maybe one theme or one thing, but it's the theoretical overarching theme of of woundedness, brokenness that we experience in life, and avoiding that at all costs.

SPEAKER_01 16:02

I I think that's really interesting because um when you see that wound that so many people are dealing with, one of the things that I think that there's a couple things that I think are interesting. First of all, a lot of people don't know that they even are dealing with it. You know what I mean? They've covered it up with so many layers and so many band-aids that they're the ones in the biggest denial. And it's like it could be glaring and they just don't see it because there's so little introspection that's going on for so many people. You know, people are just caught up in the day-to-day. And it leads me to like, how do you get information on your situation without overthinking it? You know, one of the things for me too is like, I'm really big on trying to simplify things as much as I can, you know, and to create the habits and routines that can kind of get me there. But I also think that it's really important to have people that hold me accountable and the people that call me out on places that I might be blind to my own growth or to things that can help make my situation better, if that makes any sense.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

And I think, I mean, you touched on it, it's people, it's community, it's having two to three like-hearted, like-minded folks that are in your corner, got your back, have your six, if you will. The scripture in the book of Proverbs says, iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. Or you've probably heard, I believe, Jim Roam and plenty of other folks who've said it as well. Show me your friends and I'll show you your future, or who you surround yourself with, is who you become like. A lot of those phrases and quotes and uh encouragements and more. It's when you have folks that are in your corner that have your best interest in mind, that want to see you succeed, they're willing to put their finger in your eye, call you out, hold you accountable, and beyond. Uh, that's where I believe that we find a lot of that freedom and that peace and that restoration and that healing from some of those experiences. Uh, there's even a quote, and I'm gonna see if I can uh pull it on the back of my mind here. It says, um, find like-hearted kings, um, sign treaties with them, do life with them when you're at war, they're at war. Uh ultimately that's saying, like, you got a group of people, brotherhood, or if we have any female listeners, uh a sisterhood, a community that is for you, has your back, wants the best for you, has your six and all things. And it's really uh when you're at war, they're at war, or vice versa. And so I think it really boils back down to having those people in your life that are willing to hold you accountable to what it is or who it is that you said you want it to be.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

I love that. Because, you know, if you don't have that, uh you can spin. You can spin for days and just be stuck in this place of like uh not moving forward. You know, I've seen so many people and they just they sit there in this like whirlpool of their own, like again, indecision. And you know, sometimes it's nice to have someone who can um help you see your next steps, you know. Uh, because one of the things to me, um when you have someone who can show up with you, when you have someone who can show up there day in and day out, they are sharing in your struggle, they are sharing in your journey, they are sharing it, they are invested in your success, you know. But you have to make sure that they are the right people and that they're going to show up because so many people will be there for a day or two, but then they bail on you, you know. And I think that one of the things that I try to tell people is so important is uh to find the people that are truly invested in you. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 19:53

Yeah, it is. I mean, more than anything, it's reciprocity. It's that principle of who in my sphere of influence, who in my my nucleus or my community cares for me the way that I care for them. And we find those people, we do life with them, we carry each other's burdens accordingly.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I 100% agree. How do you go about finding those people? You know, that's the question I have. Like it's like, you know, it's like the age-old question. Where do you go to find them? You know, I I, you know, do you it because it's not easy, you know, and it's interesting too, because in the self-help, you know, community of sorts, I've met a line of people that talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk, I'm not gonna throw anybody under the bus, but like they've got their own challenges. And maybe that is the whole thing, is like everyone's got their own stuff that they're dealing with. But to truly find people that can inspire you, you know, how do you find those people? That's something I'm still figuring out.

SPEAKER_00 20:47

Yeah, um I think it's I think it's a combination of intentionality and organic interaction. Regardless, I think it it it looks like moving backwards from collective community. So collective community would be like your large church service or your local CrossFit gym, the place where you have shared experiences, shared passions, shared interests with folks that you might not necessarily know. They might be your neighbor or they might be down the street. You've never crossed paths with them, but that's a collective place that we gather. So it starts with kind of that identifying that place of collective community and then working backwards into places of intimacy. Um, a lot of that is just discretion, discernment, and intuition, and then organic interaction. A lot of it is putting yourself intentionally in those pockets and in those places to meet those people. It might be even folks at the grocery store. I'm like, you know, look, look, like if I'm if I want to find people that are lighthearted, like minded, share similar values, and I'm like, and I'm going to Aldi, I'm gonna find people that are shopping at Aldi. Or if I wanna find people that are like hearted, like minded, I'm going to Trader Joe's, or I'm going to the farmer's market, or I'm going to Whole Foods. And I know that the people that are shopping there are probably going to be more like My value systems. I value holistic, I value more natural, I value these alternative or or um holistic health measures more. And I know that the folks that are going to be found in those areas are going to at least, from a nutritious standpoint, value some of the same things. Cool. Okay, check that off the box. Or if I'm at a CrossFit community, CrossFit gym space, I know that there are people here that are willing to be resilient, that are willing to challenge themselves, get uncomfortable, that like to prioritize their health and their wellness and community. So I know there are going to be people that I find here that align with some of my values. Or if I'm looking for relationships inside of the church, I go to a, I go to a large church. And then from there, I jump into a small group. And then from there, maybe I get plugged into a ministry or some sort of serving opportunity. And I'm finding folks that are aligned with my value systems in these different spaces and areas. And the I the opportunity of overlap, maybe like, hey, I go to the same CrossFit gym as the dude I just met in small group. Cool. We got a couple of shared interests there. So I think it looks like identifying those collective community spaces and places and then working backwards into the levels and layers of intimacy. But that looks like effort and that looks like dating almost, if you will. You have to make an effort and you have to put yourself out there and you have to, hey, let's grab coffee or hey, you want to hit the wad together tomorrow? Like, it's a partner wad today. Let's see if there's something here, right? And then from there, you start to pull back the layers like an onion and see like, is this a person that I can do life with? Is this a person that I'm aligned with? Is this a person that values their family the way that I do? We listen to how they speak and how they talk. Like, how do you talk about your wife? Because if you speak ill of your wife, I don't really want to spend time with you. But if you're speaking and protecting your wife and you're building her up and you're encouraging her, I'm like, hey, that's a person I want to be around because I want to make sure that I'm always doing the same for my wife and more. So I think it looks like, again, that combination of intentionality, intentionally putting ourselves in those collective spaces and then listening for language and shared alignment and value, and then organic alignment with, hey, do we, do we hit it off? Is there something here? Do we have a um, do we have a shared interest and a passion that that we can build a relationship and a friendship around? And I'll tell you that uh in my space, um, between my church community and my crossbow community, when I was in Boston, we built out a group that's now, I believe, seven years running. We called it the Warrior Group. And it's a group of eight brothers that we just get together on a monthly basis and we just open our, it's like y'all have open book to everything that I'm dealing with. And this doesn't leave here, it's protected here. We're not an echo chamber. This is a place where I want you to challenge me, put your finger in my eye, call me out when you see me not walking in alignment with who it is that I said that I am or in alignment with my values. Uh, and then that's a protected, sacred space that we hold for each other and even through life, through uh folks moving. I moved to Alabama and back. Um, folks having families and getting married and more. We've stayed and we've kept the nucleus of that group together. And we've seen so many um wins together. We've seen so much victory and triumph in all of us. We've seen just progression and growth personally, professionally, relationally, uh, you name it across the board in every way, because we hold each other accountable, because we give each other visibility into what's underneath the surface, what's underneath the hood, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

I think so many people are craving that. And they don't even know they're craving it. You know, I was I was talking to someone about that the other day. Like, I miss the days that I was training with my my my judo team, you know, or the days that I was like on a sports team in high school. I train now, but you know, when you get older um and you become a dad, like there's this this layer too that often will come up. Maybe people can't understand that, or there's some type of of buffer between you and them. And I think that it's so important to find that community to like to reach out. And one of the things too is I think that if you can think of what's important for you, you know, maybe you are CrossFit, maybe that is your thing, maybe you do love, I don't know, man. It it doesn't have to be physical activity. Maybe you like poetry and you go to the poetry gym. Like, I don't know, man. It could be whatever it is for you that brings you that joy and that to find the people that can find you there and be in that space with you. Because I think that that's the thing. One of our big I love Joe Rogan when he said, like, so many men are living lives of quiet desperation, you know, and I think that that is so true. And that doesn't have to just be men, that can be anyone. People kind of just drift life. But I think when you can find that community, uh, and you can find those people that stand by you, you know, it changes the whole game. But I want to ask you this too, because here we're talking about all this, and you know, maybe someone's listening and go, all right, you guys got me convinced. I want to feel better, I want to make a change. If someone woke up tomorrow and wanted to feel better in 30 days, you know, where should they start?

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, I would say they start by identifying what they want to see improved, right? So does feel better mean I want to have more energy? Does feel better mean that I want to lose weight? Does feel better mean fill in the blank? I don't want the pain in my joints and my muscles any longer. So identifying, again, a kind of that reverse engineer process, identifying what the angle is like, what does feel better mean? Give it a definition, and then I start to work backwards from there. And I think it's micro, it's micro wins. Um, it's it's little daily habits that move you in the direction of where it is that you want to be. So maybe to your um, to your point of poetry, right? Like I love poetry, I write poetry. I actually published a poetry book a couple of years back. Um and one of the things that I incorporated during this publishing season was microhabits of just writing. Whether or not this was any good, whether or not the content that I built out or created was actually valuable was another conversation. But it was just that habit of getting into and carving out the time to write for five minutes, just whatever was on my heart, whatever was coming to mind. And um, I did this day in and day out, and it created this habit. I became a person who wrote poetry and then I wrote a book from there, right? Um, so if a person is looking to feel better or change a habit, build something over the next 30 days, I would say start today. Start, start immediately. Give yourself a microhabit that is going to allude to or is going to resonate with that outcome. So if that outcome is I want to lose 30 pounds, well, you're not going to in 30 days, right? But hey, let's say uh pound and a half give or take a week over four weeks. That's your 30 days give or take. You're looking at give or take four to six pounds, maybe over that month. Okay, cool. What does it look like? What does a person who loses six pounds in a month do? Well, let's say let's increase our step count. So today I'm gonna walk 10,000 steps. And maybe that's a large jump for somebody. Maybe they're like I sit at a desk most hours of the day, I'm only walking two to three thousand steps a day. Cool, let's increase that. Let's go to 5,000 steps. Or what's what feels sustainable, or maybe what's just beyond our stretch point. And then again, compounding that on top for the next month. Let's add another 2,500 steps or a thousand steps or whatever feels realistic. But it's those microhabits day in and day out that compound an interest over the 30-day window of time.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

I love that because it really is like you don't realize how showing up every day. And first of all, I didn't know you did poetry. So that was an absolutely serendipitous, awesome example, you know. Um, but you know, when you want to write a book, you gotta start with your first word. When you want to create, like paint a picture, you gotta start off with like your first brush of paint. You know, it starts somewhere, you know. Getting into the gym and getting in great shape and having less pain means showing up for your first day, you know, and if you can show up, it it makes it so much easier to get there. But like it we deal with so many people in our society that are dealing with massive burnout, you know, and people want to start something new. It's like, dude, I think the best example, and it's it's cliche at this point in time, but you know, when people join the gym for after New Year's, you know, and then and then they stop going. But like, what's the difference between someone who burns out and someone who doesn't? And keep someone who keeps going and keeps showing up.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

Yeah, yeah. Again, I think it's that identity correlation, having the association with an identity, because when we when we associate with the identity, we become a person who does that behavior. And then then it's long obedience in the same direction. We're not looking for quick fixes, we're not looking for um a microwave outcome, right? We we're looking for a a lifestyle change. Um, it's something that we get to carry with us for the rest of our life. So it's long obedience in the same direction, it's sustained um habit formation over the rest of our life experience. And that's something you can look at the there's a there's a model in behavior change. It's called the trans theoretical model for change. And it builds, it builds out a model for what is sustained change, or they call it self-actualization, where you actually become that person that you had associated your identity with. Um, we can relapse from there, or if we have, I like to say it like this, and I had a good friend of mine challenge me. I said that integrity is who is um, gosh, how did I say it? Integrity is living a lot living in alignment with your desired identity. And he said, What if your desired identity sucks? What if the person that you associate yourself with sucks? Uh and I'm like, you know what? That's actually a phenomenal question too, because we so many of us have that stock or stagnant mindset that put us in a place of maybe self-deprecation or um devaluation, having conflict over who it is that we believe that we are and having this really identity root issue. So I would say find a person that's in your, that's in your corner and have them call out the good in you. Pastor Chris Hodges said it like this at the Grow Conference a couple years back. Um, so many of us see potential in others, but so few of us actually speak it into existence. Most of us don't because we fear that when we call out the good in somebody else, we're deprecating or self-deprecating ourselves, if you will. Um, he challenged us to see the good or potential in somebody, to speak it out loud, to give them uh just a vision for who it is that they are, and then sit, so see, say, and then start. So then give them a next step, point them in the direction of where it is that they can actually go from what it is that we see in them, and how many of us would respond to that with open arms and actually take that and run with it because we don't see for ourselves the good in ours, but others might see what we miss or what we lack as well. So that see, stay, see, say and start methodology, I found that to be so helpful. It's been helpful for myself. I've used that with peers, friends, clients, fill in the blake. Um, it's speaking to the potential of a person and then giving them guidance and direction for how it is that they can accomplish that or get there.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

I love that. You know, a couple things there. Um, when when I start thinking about how to you have that cease start, you have all of these different things that you're pulling in. But when I start looking at that change in myself, you know, and when I start feeling stuck, when I start looking at how I get bogged down in the mental games, you know, in the in the mental math, um, I have to come back to something bigger, you know, the idea of having a purpose-driven life, you know, and to have something bigger than myself that is part of that and figuring out what that is has been part of my journey. I love the whole sheepdog mentality, you know. I my daughter tells me to not get involved all the time. Dad, don't get involved, don't involve it. It's not our problem. But I'm like, but if I don't, who who will? You know, you know, and so it's like, um I love that. I love the movie Fury. Um, and it's like the movie was Brad Pitt, Shia LaBouffe, and all these characters, John Bergenthal, and they're sitting there. There's one scene where they quote this Bible verse, you know, and said to God said, Who shall I send? Isaiah 6 8.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Isaiah 6 8, send me. And that's one of those things that for me was an absolute game changer in my life. Because, and here's one of the things, too. Sean wasn't the guy who stepped up and was asking the one to be sent. And I had to kind of change my mindset. Like, what you know, one of the my favorite things in Christianity was a couple of years ago, the what would Jesus do movement? And I felt we got away with that. I would like to say we should have that comeback, it really should come back. Because even if you change that and you said, What would the best version of Sean do? What would the best version of Michael do? You know, because if you can start thinking about your highest, most aligned path with the path God has for you, what would that version of yourself do? Man, you're gonna be doing different things than you're doing right now. And so that's one of those things that I try to see myself in a different way and show up because you know, Sean gets scared, but that that other version of myself, fearless, absolutely fearless.

SPEAKER_00 35:57

Yeah, I love that. I used to wear the bracelet, uh, the WWJD bracelet, but then there's a a new brand, uh, a company out there called He Would Love First, HWLF. And so they took that WWJD question and they provided an answer with it, right? And that answer was he would love first. So what would Jesus do? He would love first. What does love look like in body? What does love look like um externalized and beyond? And I love that question. And I think when I when I think about what Jesus would do, and using that as my example, and Jesus is my um, he's my my beacon, right? He's the the the lamppost in which we are all striving towards. Um, when I think about what would Jesus do, and it's like, well, he would love first. Well, I would love my wife, and then I would love the people in my sphere of influence, I would love the tools, talents, the gifts that God's given me. And I would utilize them, I would give them back. One of my favorite quotes, I think it's like Leo Buscomelli, or I'm gonna murder his name, but um, he said, Your talent is God's gift to you. What you do with that talent is your gift back to God. I love that so much because what that tells me is that the things that God has placed in me innately, the talents, the tools, the skills, the abilities that are innately given to me, uh, they're not for me, right? My life is not my own, but my life is for Christ. My life is for the uh the people that are with within the sphere of my influence. And I've even coined um a phrase. I mean, it's like my it's my signature tagline uh at the end of all my emails and more. Um, but it's a it's a phrase that it drives and directs everything that I do, and it's for the good and for the glory. Everything that I do, whatever I put my hands to, whatever I touch, is for the good of God's people and the glory of his name. Um, and that's my I mean, I pray that's the case. I don't always know that um that everything that I put my hands to is for God's people in for their good, or if it's for his glory, and I'm I'm erroneous, I'm human, I fall short of uh I fall short of God and righteousness every single day. But my goal, my aim, my strive is to um everything that I touch be for the good of his people and for the glory of his name. Um and that's that bigger than me mentality, right? It's something that's greater than myself. Um, it's that, it's that mission that I feel like God has placed me on this earth to complete, is to um make his name known, um, glorified, recognized, heard, and understood. And to be uh a witness, an example to be an ambassador for his kingdom. And so um I used to think this had to be within the four walls of the church. I used to think this had to be in ministry. And then when I moved out of ministry and into the marketplace, um, I realized like, hey, this doesn't have to stay within the four walls of church. But like I can be, I don't need the title of pastor to be a pastor. God has put a pastoral heart in me. And I don't need to be in ministry to do ministry, and my life is ministry. Uh, my my heart is that my my life would be the evidence of God's love. So every interaction, conversation that I have, um, God's love gets to spill out over in that. And um, I think that's that's the like what is most important, the WMI, what matters most, what's most important, and allowing that to be the beacon or be the the the direction of uh of my life. And that's that's what leads me each and every single day when I wake up. Uh, and each and every day when I put my head down on the pillow, uh I I get to um I get to I get to know that I did something that wasn't just for me, but it was for a cause much greater than myself.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

I love that. I love the idea of our gifts are for a higher path and it's just for us to use them. Because like, you know, I've always explained that when I do podcasts, I do a bunch of podcasts. And I feel like there's a fire in me pulling it out, you know, like there's something that I'm supposed to be doing. But you know, if someone listening is trying to figure out what is the thing that they're supposed to be doing, how do you think they can go about finding that?

SPEAKER_00 40:08

Yeah. Yeah, I would say, well, first of all, I want to share a scripture. It's uh 1 Peter 4, 10, and it says it like this that each of you should use whatever whatever gift you have received in order to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Uh so I my my core conviction, my belief is that we have all been given gifts. We've all received gifts, talents, skills, abilities that just come naturally to us. Each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. So, what I was talking about was that each of us have innately been given a gift, a talent, an ability. And it's our job to steward that gift for the betterment of other individuals, of other of God's people, as it says. And this is part of our stewardship. This is part of um God's grace in action, if you will. And so I think that as we are, as we're stewarding talents and gifts and abilities, understanding or uncovering, this is the question you had of how to identify those gifts or those talents, those innate abilities. And I think I've heard it said this way that that which comes easy to you and amazing to the world is a unique skill set or a gift, and we should lean into those things. So, for instance, poetry, as I mentioned earlier, I never realized it was a gift or a talent of mine. I just used to write poetry as a kid. Um, and then I remember one day sharing a few of the poems that I had written, and I had friends and family that were astounded, like, wow, Mike, this is great. This is incredible. I can never do this. And I'm like, no, no, no, y'all just kidding, right? And I realized like this was actually just a God-given gift, something that was innately in me that I didn't have to try for, that I had to practice, that I didn't really even hone or develop. Um, it was just in me. And so I'm like, all right, well, that comes easy to me, but it seems amazing to other people. So I guess that's a talent or a gift, right? And then you could say that for anything in in life or in business or in uh in wellness and fitness, etc. That which comes easy to you and then amazing to the world, uh, that's your 10th spot. That is where you are innately and uniquely formed and created in God's image to exercise or express that gift. That's called exhortation, right? Like speaking and using those gifts as um almost a trumpet for God's glory. Because again, like I said earlier, too, whatever we do is for the good of God's people and the glory of his name. So let my life be the evidence of God's love. Well, let my talents, my gifts, my abilities, my skills, let those be evidence of God's love in me, expressed outwardly. And then that quote I shared, your talent is God's gift to you. Um, our gift to God is using that talent. Um, so I think to answer your question, when we can identify that thing that comes really easy to us, but it's amazing to others, that's our 10th spot.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

I love that. Where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 43:20

Yeah. Um, man, I'm I'm untraceable at this point. Um, I've deleted social media, I've deleted websites, uh, I'm on LinkedIn, that's about it at the moment. Uh if they want to find my books, I I wrote a book on uh human performance and optimization uh in my poetry book. They can find those on Amazon. One is called Forged, the other is called Hear My Heart, really Love Letters from God, if you will. Um, other than that, man, like I said, uh I'm I'm kind of incognito these days and just really focusing on uh being the present husband and father that I want to be and providing for my family. In minimizing distractions as much as possible.