Men Are Tired | Zachary J. Monroe | The Sean Trace Show

In this episode, I sit down with  Zachary J. Monroe, founder of Forge & Freedom, to talk about male loneliness, brotherhood, discipline, digital burnout, fatherhood, and what it really takes for men to rebuild momentum in life. 

Zachary shares why so many men feel isolated even though we are more connected online than ever, and why real connection still happens face-to-face, through challenge, accountability, and community. We talk about what it means to be a father, how work stress can affect family life, and why discipline is not about perfection, but about creating small pockets of freedom through consistent action. 

From getting outside for a short walk, to putting the phone away, to finding a group of men who will challenge and support you, this conversation is about moving from stuck to strong. It is also a reminder that leadership starts with action, not just words, and that community might be the thing many men are missing most.

What is one thing that has helped you feel more connected, grounded, or disciplined in your own life?

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah. So uh to to restart and rebuild momentum, if you think you're caught in this this sort of uh this never-ending cycle or this lull of life, um, is to is to uh really just identify it and and say it out loud and say, this is what's happening, this is how I feel. Say it out loud. Doesn't matter if anyone's around, look in the mirror and say, this is how I feel, this is what's going on, right? And talk to yourself about it. And as soon as you can really start to identify, you know, what what it is that's that's bothering you or kind of getting you down or feet making you feel like you're stuck, it always starts with identifying it first. And then from there, I think it's very it can be very simple. And you can you can start with breath work. I think breath work and this mental space of um you know just getting outside and and being consistent. So if you get outside and you walk for 10 minutes a day, maybe I don't care if you get outside and you you walk a block and come back to start. The next day you walk two blocks, and then in the day after that you walk three blocks. But the the the key idea here is consistency.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Welcome everybody back to the Sean Trey Show. I have an awesome guest with me today. Would you like to tell people who you are and a little bit about what you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, absolutely. So uh I like to say that I'm a living, breathing Spotify playlist.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

That's rad.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Talk to me about that. What do you mean by that? That that was the response I was expecting. It's the one I always get. So what so what a hot take, right? Um, so if you're anything like me, my Spotify playlist is um it changes by the season sometimes. And so I like to think my Spotify playlist as a jack of all trades. It's a utility playlist, and that's my music genre taste. So that's really who I am. That's who Zach Monroe is, founder of Forge and Freedom. I'm a jack of all trades, master of none, and uh and I'm proud of it. But uh beyond that, I'm I'm a I'm a proud father of two kids, uh a son and a daughter, uh both nine and ten. Uh I'm a loving husband, and I'm a community leader, and I've really been involved in a lot of community uh relations, um, economic development uh in my community, uh, as well as leading uh different nonprofit organizations uh right here in northern New York. So yeah, it's a little about a bit about me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

You know, I like that because when I ask, who are you and what do you do? People sit there and they immediately dive in to the career. The career is like so often what people say, I am a but there's so much more for all of us, you know. I'm a dad as well, and that's a huge core part of my identity. I love my kiddo like beyond measure. And you know, at the end of the day, I measure everything in my life against that. That is my measure of why. And if anything is encroaching upon that, if there's stress created by I'm looking at like some of my work that I'm doing right now and looking at a massive possible change to a different thing so that I can have more peace. And it's not about like I mind the work, but it's just like because what's being created internally is getting reflected out of my family. And I'm like, I don't like that, I don't like that, you know, and we as dads have to do different things, you gotta step up and do what you gotta do, but also you gotta think about your choices. Every person has to think about their choices, you know? So you speak in the language I like, man. But I I wanted to ask because you've got such a cool background, and you know, with community leadership into all of the stuff that you do, but like you talk a lot about brotherhood, and I I I find it interesting. Like, I'm a martial artist, I love doing Muay Thai with my daughter. We do, I'm a black belt in Japanese style jujitsu, not for Brazilian, those guys are those guys are savage. I love those guys, but it's really awesome that you see a lot of these guys getting into Brazilian jujitsu. And my theory is it's not about the BJJ, it's about the brotherhood, it's about a place that they can go and be with other, you know, strong people around them. And I wanted to ask you that. Well, like, why do you think so many men today feel isolated, even though we're more connected online than ever, you know?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

Yeah, that's a great question. I get asked that often. And, you know, it's it's a very complex answer. There's a number of things. And I'll I'll go through and I'll I'll outline kind of the key points and in what I think is is leading to sort of this this quiet epidemic of what we identify as male loneliness. And so a lot of it starts with my, you know, and where I came up with this idea and in and found it in Forge and Freedom as a way, as a solution to the problem, is through my own self-experience, right? So I was a very active um when I was younger, I was a very active athlete. I was a three-sport uh athlete in high school, all the way through college. I played college sports. And so all I knew in my identity was, you know, like-minded guys, athletes, you know, sports is something that we bonded over, something to be a part of, right? And um, you know, as I got older and then life changes, right? Your career starts to uh become an essential part of your focus, your family becomes a part of your focus. Um, some of those things get put to the back, right? For for good reasons because of primary focus. But sometimes what's happened is that for for men, it's gone kind of too far out of focus, and it creates what we identify as male loneliness. Now, there are gaps that can be filled, right? There are rec sports. You can go play uh Sunday night softball, I'm sure, in a local league, or you know, if you're like me, I do get to play um, you know, like beer league hockey twice a week. And so there are things that you can do to help fill those gaps, but nothing really fills that full gap except um having a consistent, and when I say consistent, I mean something you can you can reliably fall back on, uh a place and activity to really identify with with a group of of men and like-minded individuals who who really kind of uh support you and not only support you, but hold you accountable and responsible. And so, you know, like what we do with Forge and Freedom, it's a lot about um it's it's a lot about the challenge. There's there's something about the rigor and in you know in the challenge and adversity faced with other people that really unites people and brings brings guys together. And, you know, there's so many different um people working in the space, and it all looks different across the board. For some people, it looks like, you know, really just these these talking circles and you know, in in in meditation and therapy, and it's all really good stuff. Um I've I've had an opportunity to be involved in some of it before. And then there's also another, there's a subset of of guys who really just want to get out and just push. They want to just do some outdoor activity, they want the ruggedness, and um they want to challenge, and they want people to push them through the challenge. And there's something about connecting and talking about, you know, maybe maybe some of the challenges of life and adversities of life that are facing that can come out just naturally through those conversations in those types of environments. And so that's kind of where it comes from. But, you know, and it also you compare it with the digital life that we live in. So many people live online this day and age. And so while while we're more connected than ever, we're sort of disconnected as well because we don't have that same personal face-to-face connection. You know, I really think of it as these baseline connections. It's great to see somebody's life through their Facebook posts or their Instagram posts, but nothing beats sitting across from a table and having a one-to-one conversation or a phone call, you know, and I'm I'm a 35-year-old millennial, and and you know, I'm I'm I grew up just talking on the phone. I grew up being outside, I grew up having face-to-face conversations, and it's so and I live online, don't get me wrong. You know, I I'm very avid, I'm active on LinkedIn. I've sort of removed myself from Facebook and Instagram. I've sort of detoxed from those social platforms. Um it was very challenging at first, but I'm two years in and I've never felt better in my life. I utilize it for aspects of my business because it's just where the digital marketing space lives and where you've got to be present. But outside of that, like I like to live in a space of face-to-face conversations, phone calls, and being connected in in in authentic ways.

SPEAKER_01 8:28

I love that too, man, because it's like today, I had a horrible day with work. It was not a fun vibe. Now, I took my daughter to martial arts class and I was gonna work out with her, but then I was sitting outside and it was above the gym in the basketball courts, and I just I just sat, just watched, just chilled, and that being present and like being off of your phone, being off of all the digital world. Because like, let's be real, so much of what's online is an absolute mess. It's people that are saying what they think people want to hear to trend, but reality is a lot of them don't even know what they're thinking, man. They just are are literally, it's like a recycle like uh uh uh of like this Saturday, I'm doing something different for this podcast. I I see a lot of people doing these talking heads, you know, and I do I'm not hating on them. I love them. I love watching Stephen Bartlett, I love watching that stuff, but I was like, yeah, I want to do something different. I love Marcus Aurelius, and Marcus Aurelius has this great line waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one. And you know, one of the things that bugs the hell out of me living where I live is that there's so much trash on the street, you know, and it's like next level, and so I was just like, you know what? What I'm gonna do this week? I've done it once or twice before, didn't film it. I just will go out 5 a.m., pick a bunch of big bags, and then go up and down the street picking up all the trash I can see. And I was like, let's do it again, let's do it again. This time I want to talk about Marcus Aurelius while I'm doing it. And normally I don't like to show that stuff off. I just like I'm just gonna do it today, man. But I wanted to show it just because, like, you know what? I could sit here and talk to you about what being good is about, but here's a problem I see every day in front of my house. What can I do? And it's like being in it, you know, and it's like I'm not saying I have the secret. God knows I don't have the secret to what it can motivate people, but I do know that I am one of a lot of people that want to make a difference, you know, and and like, and I think that there's so many people that feel stuck in their situation, in their lives. Yeah. And I want to ask you that because like if a regular guy listening feels stuck in life right now, overwhelmed, anxious, unmotivated, whatever, what's the first thing he you think he should do to start rebuilding momentum?

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Yeah. So uh to restart and rebuild momentum, if you think you're caught in this, this sort of uh this never-ending cycle or this lull of life, um, is to, is to uh really just identify it in and say it out loud and say, this is what's happening, this is how I feel. Say it out loud. Doesn't matter if anyone's around, look in the mirror and say, this is how I feel, this is what's going on, right? And talk to yourself about it. And as soon as you can really start to identify, you know, what what it is that's that's bothering you or kind of getting you down or feet making you feel like you're stuck, it always starts with identifying it first. And then from there, I think it's very it can be very simple. And you can you can start with breath work. I think breath work and this mental space of um you know just getting outside and and being consistent. So if you get outside and you walk for 10 minutes a day, maybe I don't care if you get outside and you you walk a block and come back to start. The next day you walk two blocks, and then in the day after that you walk three blocks. But the the the key idea here is consistency and getting some sort of fresh air, being outside and finding time and space, even if it's small pockets, to really um to find to find those wins, right? And I we've all heard about the get up and make your bed uh story, right? It's like the first thing you should do every day is get up and make your bed, right? Because that's your first win for the day.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

So it's it's sort of like a William McBraven man, so that's right.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I I mean I love it. I mean it's and I know it's it's used often, but it's it's one of the best examples. But it going beyond that, get up, make your bed, and go outside and walk for five minutes. Because being outside in fresh air, you know, especially because a lot of people in in in the modern day work in in in an office space or work in out, you know, indoors, and you know, being outside, there's something about connecting. You can find space, you can find peace, you can find that mental space. And so finding that consistency is a great place to start because then you can really start to to dive into that internal uh conversation with yourself. And that's a great, that's the best place to start, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

I think that one of the things that we are so disconnected with is ourselves, you know, and whether you, you know, getting out, walking, one of the things that I'm trying to do is like keeping my phones downstairs uh away from the bedroom, so that when I go upstairs and I'm gonna just get a like a physical little alarm clock that I gotta, you know, go back to the old school things because I just feel that, and I'm not not gonna lie, like I get digital anxiety just thinking about, oh, what's the next email? What is there my Slack notification gonna come on, you know? One of the things that I think that is so important is is getting like just disconnecting, like you said, and like when you you're out for that walk, you're out there and you're taking things in, you're taking things in for the day, you're taking things in in a very open way that is approaching the day for what it is. It's like a new beginning. You know, every single day is a beautiful beginning, and it's a new chance that you have to get out there and make a difference, not just to show up, not just do things. And if you're just showing up, if you're just going through the motions, figure out what it is gonna that that you can do that's gonna help you start to feel like you're winning, you know, because I I think that we don't win every single day, but you can be moving toward a goal. And you know, and I think that one of the core parts of that is is working with the discipline to kind of enact that. And I I saw something that you wrote that I really love when you said discipline is the price of freedom. Like, what does that actually look like in real life for somebody with kids, work stress, bills, and a million responsibilities?

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah. I love it when I when I thought about when I was writing that piece, you know, discipline is the price of freedom. And so, you know, finding that discipline is exactly what we just talked about. It's, you know, being disciplined to to put that phone away, to do a digital detox, right? To to recognize and say, um, yeah, why am I why am I picking up my phone or why am I worried about when the next email or Slack notifications come in? It's it's it's recognize where it comes from and it's the dopamine hit, right? And as soon as you can you can identify that and be like, okay, that's the piece. And the same thing with getting outside and and walking, right? And that's the that's the discipline. The consistency is the discipline, and that's the price of freedom, because you have to find the discipline in order to find those pockets of freedom. So when you digital detox, you'll feel that freedom. You'll feel that weight of not having the anxiety of needing to check your phone. Um, if you're if you're identifying with someone who says, you know, I I don't feel good about the way that I feel, maybe it's a a physical nature thing, and getting outside for five minutes and walking and being disciplined in that walk is the freedom of feeling better about your physical self. Right. So that's really kind of what I meant by when I say discipline is the cost of freedom. And, you know, and it's and it's difficult sometimes. If you're someone like you and I, who have kids, who have jobs, who are involved in other aspects of um, you know, organizations and and being involved in service opportunities outside of just your other responsibilities, then it can be difficult. But the consistency, going back to that every single time, is so important because that's where it becomes key. You know, they say you do something three times, and then your brain really starts to um to recognize it as a pattern, and then it becomes easier. So, you know, the recommendation, you if you can do something three times, then it becomes easier. And I can tell you, I I'm a living uh example of that. You know, I've gone pockets of time without any physical fitness, without working out. And every time I've reminded myself, okay, you got to do this three mornings in a row. If you can get three in a row, you know that your body's gonna start to be trained and your your brain's gonna train your body to get up at five o'clock and and and go jog a mile and you know, lift some weights and do some things that you know are consistent. And so I always remind myself of that. But um, so that's why I always come back to that is consistency is key, but that is the discipline and that is the price of uh of of freedom, mental freedom, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Right. And I mean it is really because it's like if you want to go to the gym and you want to have freedom from movement issues when you're older, freedom from heart disease when you're older, freedom from diabetes when you're older, well, you you gotta make changes now. The discipline now, the discipline not to eat 25, you know, uh pieces of sugar, sugar bomb, you know, like that. That might not be the best thing for you right now. Or, you know, like I'm gonna eat 32 steaks today. Well, that's that's gonna probably boost your cholesterol a tad bit, you know, you know. So I mean it's like the things is like the discipline there, you know. I I have a podcast that talks about personal finance. And what's wild is on that podcast, you know, the core of that is all about can you um you know discipline yourself enough to sit there and go, this is good for me, or this is not, and then you gotta keep showing up. But it starts off with a core like mental direction of what it is that is your core intentionality, what is it that is your why? What is it that's your north star? You know, and today I was having an existential crisis as I was sitting there thinking about some work stuff because my daughter is my North Star, and that is that is just the way it is. And right now, there's been something that is preventing me from having the peace in my house with that, you know, and so it was like it was really easy to make a decision or make decisions in general when you know what it is that is important to you. And I wanted to ask you this next question too, because it's tough at times, man. It's tough to show up, it's tough to know what you're doing. And like a lot of men were raised to hide emotions and just deal with it, you know? In your opinion, where does that mentality help men and where does it start hurting them?

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Uh, where does it help men and where does it hurt them? So yeah, I think there's there's every in life, there's balance. I think it everything boils down to balance, right? And you know, I'm not blaming, but I often talk about there is this um this there's this cultural and society of uh of manhood and suck it up, right? And yeah, it's it's dangerous um to get caught in that, but also recognize that it's not totally off balance, right? There are keys of the balance of that where it can be um implemented and understood to be utilized. And so, but where it gets dangerous is when uh you you you take it too far, right? You take it too serious and realize that there are really things that that bother you, right? Whether it be challenging things, um uh you know some of those things we've talked about in this podcast, right? It could be marital problems, it could be um loss of identity, it could be a number of different things that really could could lead up to um you know monumental shifts in in depression and in change. And so feeling like you can't talk about those things is when it becomes dangerous because it's not what what strong men do, right? And the reality is that strong men are able to identify weaknesses, they can identify their strengths, they know both sides of the aisle and are open to be able to speak about, speak openly and authentically about what's going on in their life. And it's not really easy in a cultural society when when there's ideological ideas that you know it's not strong for men to speak about their problems. And it's tribal, it goes back to, you know, back to our early heritage of, you know, the the back to the the caveman era of hunter-gatherers, even, right? It's like the men were the ones that went out, hunted, killed, came back, and the wives were um, you know, the ones that cooked and and got everything prepared, right? Gathered all the the nutrients for for the meal. But society has changed, right? And recognizing that what you know, we can't look at the you know, we can't look at prehistoric uh life with modern day through modern day lenses because it has changed so much. And we have to recognize that there are opportunities, there are spaces, there are people who who can really um understand challenges and adversities and create avenues for for men to really talk about uh what's going on in their life, right? Whether it be any of those those issues that we had talked about. And and part of the reason that's so important is because of you know high high uh death by suicide rates um amongst men. You know, we see it in the data, and it's it's alarming, right? And I've had to deal with it on a personal level, and I I don't like it, and it's it's and it's really bothered me, and I'm not a person that can. can easily just sit by and feel bad about something or, you know, complain about something without having to at least put my foot in and say, I'm gonna try to do something. I'm gonna try to move the needle. Even if it moves the needle a little bit, I always view that as a win, but I have to do something. And if it's speaking on a podcast episode and it saves one person's life because they decided that, hey, I'm gonna go see my best friend. I haven't talked to them in six months, but you know, here's here's some some stuff going on in my life and I need to really just just air it out. I got to get it off my chest. And so that's really been my approach to it. Um but that's where that's the difference. That's where that can become it can become a problem, you know, if if if leaned in too far and and finding the balance is really the the key in it all.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

I love that because it really is at the end of the day all about finding balance, you know, and I think that one of the things that is tricky to do because we live in an inherently out of balance world. You know, I I don't think anyone is taught balance that much early on you know we're taught if you want to succeed, go all in. We're taught if you want this, you go after it, you know, but like how do you think people can find that way? There's like one thing I noticed in your writing is this idea that men don't necessarily need another mentor. They need a stronger environment. Like can you tell me what you mean by that? Because that that's interesting to me and that speaks to me as to why people seek out locations and places that are, you know, they have a validating group around them.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah. And it's a lot of what Forge of Freedom is right. It's what we do. It's about that brotherhood. And so when I say you know find challenging groups and find people who are going to hold you accountable, right? Because that's how you better yourself as a person. A mentor is great. I love mentors. I love mentorship. I've spent a lot of time in it especially on the youth side of things. I think there can be a little lot of impact. But terms of what we're talking about and finding space is about um not settling for status quo, improving, you know, and those are spaces where you know I and I'm sure you've been a part of them, Sean, where everybody in the room or maybe it's a group or an organization or committee and everyone's just patting each other on the back and everyone's saying hey we're doing a great job, great doing great job. That feels great in the moment, right? And it's like, okay, we're doing everything great. But it's easy to have these these blinders on and recognize that hey we can be doing a lot better. There are things that we could be doing better. And so when I say find those spaces, that's what it allows you to do on a personal level. It allows people who maybe have different beliefs or different thoughts that can challenge things to make you view things maybe a little bit differently or or drives you in with momentum and motivation to to dig into something or develop something a little bit better. And it approves you in the personal uh development in the long run. So that's that's kind of what I've I've been focusing on developing. And it's so those are those spaces where uh mentorship, you know, if you're if you're talking one-on-one mentorship, it's hard to get that sometimes, you know, mentors can certainly guide you and they can help hold you accountable. I mean they can help you develop and improve um you know and someone that you can check in with and I think that people should absolutely have a mentor. I've benefited from it and that I've paid it forward and been a mentor. So and I've seen the value in all of that. But where I've really seen the needle move in terms of personal development is when I've put myself in those spaces where you know I might have felt a little uncomfortable but at the end of the day it drove me to be better. It drove me to think better. And you know I just in in terms of overall development I became a better person through that.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

Yeah. I love that man and I think that one of the things too is because whatever you can take that can make you a better person is powerful, you know, because I think that for me I found that it was really hard to when I moved overseas um and I lived in a new country one of the toughest things for me was that my community was not there. I got to create a new community but it's different you know and and becoming a father um and getting married like my community kind of shrank down even more and what I want to ask you though because like for me I had to get out and seek out groups. I had to seek out people my podcast was one of the fun ways that I could do it was talking on here talking to cool people and and finding like minded people right you work in community leadership youth programs and men's wellness.

SPEAKER_00 26:37

What worries you most about the direction young men are heading right now I mean this this one for me is pretty easy when I look at youth and I I worry that it's this um between male loneliness and its relationship to this digital complex it's it's it's boys being raised um online and not enough outside. You know I was looking I've I've done some research and some data especially working with youth and then you know I've I've I've done it niche on both sides with both female and males and you know male boys in their development they need to um their brain is wired to to to horse play to be rough to to to to fool around like that that is part of that development that is just the natural male um makeup and so that is important and so I I see it in that there isn't enough of that being incorporated in in today's um you know youth youth development side of things that idea of play right and so you know it's and it's one of the things I often I I look to my son and I just kind of evaluate and I see what kind of what's going on and how I want to to help him in his in his male development growing up. And so that's why I look into this often that's my North Star right my kids my family that's why I do everything in the community that I do but um I would say that is is my concern that there isn't enough balance um of digital and I'm not and I'm not a totally anti-digital person. Like I recognize like hey this is the way the world is right so you know you talk about all the AI stuff I'm not also I'm not an anti I anti-AI person so it's not like I think that you know um I recognize that that is going to be the future and it's tough to you have to really evolve and adapt but you you have to evolve and adapt with that balance and you cannot forget what is the historical makeup of what's needed, right? What is the genetic um development and so with boys that is really what I I tend to focus on right with my son being involved being outdoors teaching them the activities and they have to be led you know I I think you can't expect them you can't say hey here's what you have to do and then expect them to go do it you know and especially in youth development you have to show them the way you know like you let's let's take for example you're talking about going outside and picking up trash okay that's a value based thing right you said the problem is is I live in this this city and there's a lot of trash I don't like it. So instead of instead of just complaining about it, you're going outside and taking a couple bags and picking up some trash each day what are you telling your daughter you're sharing that same value you know now if that's let's back that up a little bit. Let's say that you just complained about it and never went out. So you're telling your then you'd be telling your daughter it's okay to complain about things and then just not do take any action on it. So that's leadership. That's leadership to a key if you recognize a problem but don't provide a solution and show the way to the solution then you're not doing you know you're not doing leadership justice. You know I I think I said I commented one of your LinkedIn posts uh the other day I'm trying to remember exactly what it was you were sick oh I remember what it was you were you were down and out I think you had some illness going on you had talked about um how your team continued to uh to just to thrive right even without you being present and I I commented I said you know that is an example of of strong leadership because you have obviously showed them the way and have set the set the standard you have put um faith in your staff you have you know put confidence and still confidence and empowered them to really be able to continue and make decisions and operate even without you present that is a key character characteristic of strong leadership that is a key characteristic of men who are mentors to young men um in and really just any leadership across the board yeah I love that man if someone were to want to change their life right now what's something that you think they could really do find community find a community if you are not connected to a community find community you know every no matter where you live rural metro these exist anywhere just do a little bit of research get yourself outside your comfort zone a little bit to really make an introduction you know and I think it's easy for people who are extroverted to reach out have conversations to strike up conversation with anybody at the coffee shop in line at the grocery store wherever you are to really develop some sort of connection I think it sometimes becomes a little more difficult for people who identify as introverted. And so and that's where it becomes difficult and you know in putting yourself out there and in finding those uncomfortable situations but you really have to go out and seek the community because it won't always come to you. You know if you're someone like me I get in the community and I every conversation I have I am identifying is this you know does this someone who who needs to come into the community right is this someone who who can belongs at Forge of Freedom can come out with us on our next hike or our next you know um cold plunge right and inviting them. I try to do I go the next level in the fact that I'm always being diligent and trying to invite people in that doesn't always exist in communities so sometimes you do have to go find it but it is so important and even if it's just a small group or or one small simple you know maybe it's a one-off event that you go help volunteer on um that could lead to a conversation that leads to a group to a to a community to something where you can find meaning and purpose and connection.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Yeah. Well brother I wanted to ask where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 32:18

Yeah I would say you know like I said I am I'm personally not active on on social media outside of of LinkedIn but uh our our our company is Forge and Freedom and it's really it's it's focused on adventure through brotherhood hiking and um you know being outdoor activities bringing guys together to to do all the things that we've talked about in this podcast today and uh we have an active website it's uh www.forgeandfreedom.com uh we do have forge of freedom has an active social on all the platforms I think we're Instagram Facebook TikTok everything is at forge the letter and freedom I couldn't get the uh the at sign in there so I had to use the end I don't love it but it works. Um so yeah that's that's the best place to find all the updates and everything about what's going on at Forge of Freedom and what we do and and how we help provide a solution to some of the um the problems that we've we've discussed today that modern men face.