Confidence Comes Later | Fred Joyal | The Sean Trace Show

In this episode, I sit down with Fred Joyal, longtime entrepreneur, author, keynote speaker, and founder of 1-800-DENTIST, to talk about what it really means to become bold. Fred breaks down why boldness is not the same as confidence, and why waiting to feel ready might be the thing keeping you stuck. 

We talk about taking action when you are uncomfortable, building boldness like a muscle, learning through failure, and why doing hard things early can make life easier later. Fred also shares how one bold decision helped him leave his job, build a business, and grow 1-800-DENTIST into a company generating $45 million a year. 

This conversation is for anyone who feels shy, stuck, afraid of rejection, or tired of watching opportunities pass by. 

The big reminder is simple: you do not become bold by thinking about it. You become bold by acting your way into a new version of yourself. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

People will say, well, I would be bolder if I were more confident. And I, my response is, if you're confident, it doesn't require any boldness. You're you're confident about how it's going to go. Boldness is all about taking action when you're not sure how it's going to go, when you're not confident in your ability or the outcome or both. Boldness is stepping up, speaking up, taking a risk, taking a chance, taking action. And what happens when you do that when you're not confident, when you're uncomfortable, when you're fearful, you're anxious, maybe even about it, and you act anyway, that's what builds your confidence. So to build your boldness like a muscle, just like in the gym, you're doing bench presses, Sean, and and you know, you're you've got you know 300 pounds on the bar. So you're you're knocking out 10 of those. At no point in the rest of your life are you going to need to get 300 pounds off your chest. You're doing it to get stronger. And the other thing is you're aiming for failure. You're deliberately making yourself so uncomfortable by bench pressing that you're going to fail. Because that's where all the growth is. Ask any trainer. The growth is in the last two reps, and then the rep you can't do.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Welcome everybody back to the Sean Trace Show. I have an awesome guest with me today, would you like to introduce yourself? Introduce yourself, tell people what you do, and uh yeah, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Hi, I'm Fred Joyle. Uh, I'm a longtime entrepreneur, started a company called 1-800 Dentist many years ago, ran it for 27 years. Uh, now I'm a keynote speaker and an author and uh business advisor. Uh a little bit of investing, a lot more of uh coaching going on. And uh, you know, just but now my passion is teaching people how to build their boldness like a muscle uh so that they are chasing their dreams and not stacking regrets.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Wow, there's a couple great one-liners right there. First of all, build your boldness like a muscle and not stacking those regrets is huge, man. Um, talk to me. How can people build their boldness like a muscle? Because that that right there just jumps out at me from the beginning.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

The the core concept is to understand that because people will say, the premise is the behind this is people will say, well, I would be bolder if I were more confident. And I, my response is if you're confident, it doesn't require any boldness. You're you're confident about how it's gonna go. Boldness is all about taking action when you're not sure how it's gonna go, when you're not confident in your ability or the outcome or both. Boldness is stepping up, speaking up, taking a risk, taking a chance, taking action. And what happens when you do that when you're not confident, when you're uncomfortable, when you're you're fearful, you're anxious, maybe even about it, and you act anyway, that's what builds your confidence. So to build your boldness like a muscle, just like in the gym, you're doing bench presses, Sean, and and you know, you're you got you know 300 pounds on the bar. So you're you're knocking out 10 of those. At no point in the rest of your life are you gonna need to get 300 pounds off your chest. Right. You're doing it to get stronger. And the other thing is you're aiming for failure. You're deliberately making yourself so uncomfortable by bench pressing that you're going to fail. Because that's where all the growth is. Ask any trainer. The growth is in the last two reps, and then the rep you can't do. So the whole thing, so you move that principle over to taking bold action when there is very little confidence, it's just something you're afraid of. Oh, I I don't like to talk to strangers. Great. Just start saying hi to strangers. You'll be uncomfortable, but you'll eventually get more confident. And you just you just keep doing bold exercises, bold actions when the consequences are low, so that you're bold when it matters.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

I I've always been one of the people that like I try to shoot for the stars. And when I don't hit them, I still had a fun trip, you know? Um, but it's something that I had to practice. It was something that, you know, I had a my dad who always modeled that for us of just going after fun things and going out and saying, hey, let's try this, let's do this. But, you know, for some people, there are challenges to doing some of that. And like you call yourself a former introvert, you know, and for people who don't know what an introvert is, what is that? Can you tell them how did you move beyond that?

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Introvert, real introversion is you're behave in a shy way almost all the time, except like with your close friends or your spouse or or co-workers that you really know. But even then, you're holding yourself back. You're actually not even comfortable presenting your real self most of the time. You you're you don't like meeting people and and and because it makes you uncomfortable. You don't take risks because they make you uncomfortable. Uh you're afraid of failing, you're you're um you're over-perfectionist. Like if you could just do everything perfectly to guarantee you're not going to fail. That's all introversion behavior. And what I want people to do, because I'm I call call myself a bold introvert, because I I have the full span. I can spend an enormous amount of time alone, but it's by choice. And now I can dial it all the way up. I can walk on stage in front of 5,000 people and not even break a sweat, have a great time. Even if I forget half my speech, I'm gonna say something I'm not, I'm just not gonna be anxious about it. Now, I've built that like a muscle, you know, starting with 10 people and sucking at speaking, you know. Uh but what happens as you do this is that you create this positive feedback loop because good stuff happens. And if you uh what bold people learn is that trying and failing feels better than not trying. And that's what introversions don't know. It feels safer. It is, it's supposedly safer in their minds to not take action, to not put themselves out there because they're not going to get hurt. But what they do is they stack regret after regret after regret. They miss opportunity after opportunity, and they're afraid to chase their dreams. And you know what? Clock runs out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I um started public speaking many years ago. And my route to public speaking was very different than most people. Uh, because I remember the first day that I walked into a room and the audience of about 25 people stared at me and they judged me 100%. They were also all seven and eight years old. But, you know, I was, I moved to Southeast Asia and for after college I taught kids. And it was the most challenging proving ground I ever went through for how to work with attention, how to work with, and it was awesome because I was out of my comfort zone the whole time. You you think it's just a bunch of kids, I'm gonna walk a room and teach. No, no, those little kids, they will call you out more than an adult will. An adult will smile at you and go, you're doing a good job. Kids won't. Kids will be like, you're failing right now, teacher. And you're like, no, don't be so radically honest. But you know, one of the things that I found is like as I flex flexed that muscle, it got easier. And those fears started to fade away, but it took a boldness, it took confidence, it took a little bit of uh of like just saying, you know what, I don't know what's the worst that could happen, but let's see. Let's see. And I wanted to ask you about that because you talk a lot about boldness. What's the difference between being bold and being fearless? Because I'm gonna tell you, when I walked in front of those kids, I was full of fear.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

It's scary. Boldness is taking action when you when you are afraid. You know, as they they say that when they talk about courage, which is, you know, that's in in in you know, almost physically high risk situations or really gigantic risk situations. Uh it if if if you're not afraid, it doesn't require any courage. Uh it's it boldness is taking actions when you're you're afraid. It could be embarrassing, it could go really badly. They could laugh at me, they could not like me, they could reject me. You know, and we have this deep ingrained thing where we don't want to be kicked out of the tribe. Because a hundred thousand years ago on the African plane, that meant you died. You died, or the next tribe enslaved you or ate you or just killed you for the fun of it. So we want to fit in. We we want to stay in the tribe. And a lot of times that means keeping your head down. Don't draw attention to yourself. And we're told this by parents. Some parents raise their kids to not be bold because they don't want the kid to experience any discomfort, any pain. Right. But the way you what you did is you got comfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable. Yep. And that's the trick. We have to trick ourselves. You go, like, oh yeah, uh, I'm afraid of this. It must mean I really want it. I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna say yes. You become the person who says yes, even though there's a whole part of your brain going, no, say no. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Hide, let's hide.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Right?

SPEAKER_02 11:01

Maybe they won't notice.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

Yeah. So I I love that. I um I have a 10-year-old daughter, and a couple of years ago, um, she had an event at school that stressed my wife and I out. And we said, you know what? We're gonna get her into martial arts. And I looked at all of the different places here, and there was a gym that I had trained at that trains Muay Thai, Thai boxing. And so we got her into that gym. And I train three days a week with her. We train at the same time. And what happened was I noticed in the beginning it was like I was really worried. It was she was running harder than I thought was safe. She was doing sit-ups like more than I thought was okay. They were pushing her harder, and she had to start doing some sparring, obviously with pads, but still I was I was stressed. But then I realized one really interesting thing happened. She started rising to the occasion, she started upping her strength, and she's probably one of the most confident kids I know now, and she's willing to walk into whatever arena that she's able to go into because she's been in more challenging events before. She's like, if you know, as long as it's not walking in with like another Thai boxer that's trying to punch her in the face, she's like, I can handle this event or that event, you know? And so it that discomfort allowed her to grow.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Yeah, and she got comfortable with the idea of the only way I'm gonna get better is not being good at this, but being willing to not be good at it. And that's that's what people, you know, what happens to us a lot of times, we we get in our 20s, we don't want to fail at anything ever again, because failure for 12 years of education has is an F. It is it is a bad thing. And it and it's except it's how we learned to walk, how to talk, how to sing, how to play a guitar, how to dance, how to shake hands, make eye contact, you know, all of it. Suck till you're good as is the is the only path. And nobody was born, you know, a virtuoso guitarist. It's you know, it's they practiced a lot and they kept missing notes. And even even the best people, and I mean, I'm a good friend of mine, she's she is uh uh an award-winning pianist, like world touring. And she'll come off, she'll do these mind-blowing pieces, and she'll come off and she'll go, like, yeah, there was like five places. I just hit the wrong key. And I was like, there's no way in the world I would have known that. Um, but she's it's okay. She knows it. She's never gonna play it at a hundred percent. And she's totally okay with it. Because she started, you know, I the instrument I use as the example is if is if you've got your kid to play violin, a violin will teach you that you're not gonna sound good for a while.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

A long time. So true. My friend um here is um is an exceptional violinist. She teaches violin to the international schools. She is amazing. And she told me that I said, Well, what's the biggest challenge with learning violin? She says, It's not forgiving in the beginning. It is not forgiving in the beginning. Piano, you can hit that key, and no matter how you hit that key, it's gonna sound beautiful. It sounds good because you just press it down. But violin, it does not sound pretty. It sounds like cats trying to kill each other, you know? And so, but you know, I see it because like we oftentimes will know what we're supposed to be doing. People will say, you know, I should be out at the gym, I should be exercising, I should be trying to do this more. But so many people know what they should do, but they still don't do it. Why do you think that happens?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Part of it is the brain loves routine. The brain is a calorie conservation device in our body. Because it's it's 2% of our body weight and at rest burns 20% of the calories that we use. So as soon as we start to do other stuff, the brain goes, I have an idea. Let's do nothing. Right? It's just like when you start a workout, the first five minutes you're like, there's no way I'm doing 30, 40 minutes on a treadmill. Because you're you're like, I'm three minutes in, I feel like I'm gonna, if I get to four, it'll be a miracle. But all of a sudden you get to 10, and you get to halfway, and you go like, and now it all feels like downhill. It's it's but it's the brain's gonna fight you until you say, we're doing this. And it goes, okay, fine. I'll I'll I'll I'll engage now. So there's that, and there's this whole idea of inertia. Inertia is a natural law, but it's also a human law. A human at rest tends to stay at rest, and a human in motion tends to stay in motion. So we have to trick ourselves into starting. This is why Mel Robbins' very simple idea that that she taught with her first book, like the 5-4-3-2-1 countdown start works. Because we need to trick ourselves to start. The hardest thing to do is the first step. And we will do everything to avoid it. And that's why but but you know, eventually, it's just like if you start working out and for six, seven weeks, you miss a day and you go, I I really should have worked out. And you're starting to think it's it's only seven o'clock, maybe I could go for a run or something. It it shifts because you start to crave uh being in motion. And it and it's in and it because what you're really doing is giving your heart what it wants, which is to be fulfilling its your aliveness. You have been given a life to chase your dreams relentlessly until your heart stops. So if you say, My heart wants to be healthier, my heart wants to chase this dream, my heart wants to help these people, my heart wants to start a business, my heart wants to find uh somebody to love, my heart wants to be a great mother, and you do the difficult things, and the sooner you learn to do the hard things, the easier your life gets.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

I love that. The sooner you learn to do the hard things, because the hard things are the gateway to where you want to be. I remember when I was a kid, I wanted to be on the volleyball team. And I was not athletic, I was not a good jumper, I was not like naturally gifted. And yet my coach said, show up here at 5 a.m. and let's train. I woke up every day uh at 5 a.m. And I would just wake up and go at it. And the coach would be there and he would train me. And that first season, I didn't make the team. He said, keep showing up, keep coming for extra practices, and I kept coming for extra practices. The next year, I made the team, but I wasn't great. So he said, keep coming, keep showing up, kept going to the extra practices. And that my senior year, I was the top player on my team. I was really good. And then, you know, I got to college and I thought I had arrived. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna join the college team. I didn't. My first two years, I was not on the team because there were guys that were better than me. So, what did I do? I went back to the 5 a.m. practices. I went back to go into it and kept practicing. What I found junior year of college, I made the team, senior year as well. Now, what I learned from that is even still, I rode the bench for a lot of my junior and season year, senior year in college, but that's okay because it wasn't about the plane, it was about doing the hard stuff and learning that the hard stuff is what's important to get you to where you want to be. I do four podcast episodes a day right now. Today, I've got four, I've got one at midnight, and then I've got two in tomorrow morning. And I'm gonna be there for all of them. I got a nice cup of tea, I'm good to go. I'll nap tomorrow afternoon, and uh I make sure that I get plenty of rest when I can. But it's about doing the hard stuff. If I want to be, I got to work with Mel Robbins. Last year I worked with Team Mel, and I was uh looking to work with Mel as her director of video. I pulled out of that role because Boston's cold and I live in Southeast Asia. So, but I I got to meet everyone at Team Mel and I love them. But I want to be as big as Mel, and the only way that I'm gonna be able to get there is by showing up every single day and doing the hard stuff.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Well, and you also talked about something that is so critical is you were you found a coach and it opens you to like, oh, the answer is the coaching, is because a coach, a real coach, a good coach, shows you that you're capable of much more than you thought you were. Because otherwise, you impose a limitation. You go, like, I I don't have any more. And you know, I had a wrestling coach, and it was like, uh, oh no, you you're you're doing another 15 minutes of exercise. And I was like, I'm dying here. It's like, but you're fine, you summon it. You and and if you athletics can really help you to discover that that we we almost the brain again is jumping in, going, we've done enough. Let's let's stop. Let's stop here. We're we did pretty good. Brain the Love is pretty good. The heart does not. And so when you find out, it's like, oh, I got 20% more, that becomes knowledge that you've learned by action. Because of course, you know the principle, we can act our way into a new way of thinking way more easily than we can think our way into a new way of acting. So if when you do that, you you say, wow, I thought it was absolutely done, and then I did four more sprints. So I wasn't done. So part of me is trying to stop me at 80%. And all the growth is happening in the extra 20, you know? And, you know, and I I worked with this young man who's a painful introvert to the point of social anxiety. But I could take him out as his boldness coach, and I would say, you're gonna compliment this hostess's hair when we go up to her. You're gonna tell her she's just got great looking hair. And he could do it. His father couldn't believe it. He said, My son barely will come out of his room. And he said, and you've got him talking to women and compliment him? I went, yeah. I said, I I brought him into an in-and-out burger and I made him yell at the top of his lungs, I love hamburgers. That's awesome. And he did it. And he because he had a coach. And it and it and it you could see it changing him. And it and he went from uh not being able to work, like he meant to go, he went out, found himself a job, became an electrician's apprentice. He's now got like 4,000 hours. He's he's almost got that certification, whatever the heck they call it for you know, electrical uh contractors or or electrician, just because he decided to go out and find out that he was capable of something.

SPEAKER_00 24:10

That's awesome. What's the boldest thing that you've ever done that completely changed your life?

SPEAKER_01 24:16

This is it's so the whole idea is you want to have that boldness when it really matters, because there will be these pivotal moments in your life where you'll either step up and and get on this amazing pathway towards chasing your dreams, which could take decades and ideally 50, 60 years. Or you're gonna stop yourself. You're gonna take the safe path and and you're gonna and you're gonna live with that. You're gonna live a life of mediocrity, of, of what uh Thoreau talled a life of quiet desperation. And so for me, I I knew I liked advertising, but I knew that I I didn't want to be an employee that much. And and so this person approached me and said, I was I had moved to LA and he he approached me and he said, You're a good writer. He said, Would you I had this screenplay idea and I'm not a writer, would you write the screenplay for me? And I thought, this is my chance to break out. And I said, Yeah, I'll do it for 30 grand up front. That was the bold move because the upfront allowed me to quit my job in the ad agency and and just get good at creative writing. And then the next thing that happened is uh a person I knew who I'd met in in business had the 800 dentist phone number. And he said, I have this phone number, I'm not doing anything with it, but I think it could be a business. Do you want to take it and try to turn it into a business? And at that point, I was I was in bold momentum, and I had enough money to survive and start a business without having to earn. And everything flowed from that. Because my I got another friend of mine, we started the business, we beat the streets, and you know, like talk about boldness. We had to, we had to talk to 400 dental practices before we found 15 that would pay us. But we eventually built that from 15 to 3,500 and $45 million a year in revenue. And everything flowed from that. That one time where I said, I'm gonna quit my job. Here's the other great thing. This sidebar really satisfying because it's important to understand that there will be people in your life, a lot of them, that do that. My former boss at the agency where I worked, and I quit, when I told him what I was gonna do with 800 dentists, he said, that'll never work. And a little bit of I'll show you, buddy, kicked in. He motivated me to prove him wrong. And I'm sure as he started to see television commercials running constantly for 800 dentists, maybe that's working. So I, you know, there will be people that that they don't want you to reach your dreams because they've given up on the air.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Yes. How do you handle those people? How do you interact with them? Because, you know, you can't change them. Do you just cut them out entirely? What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 27:58

They they get very few of my calories. Because I got I I gotta move. I we only have so much willpower, we we only have so much energy in a day. You can summon a lot more than you think, but just like we can only make so many decisions in a day. What if you there are people that will drain all your energy, and you and you, you know, if you're like me, we're trying to lift them up. We're trying to get them on track, get them rolling, get him to feel what we feel about chasing life, living fully, chasing your dreams boldly. And all they do is drain you flat. Because they're it we're not helping them. They their life either needs to get so bad that they have to do something about it themselves, or they are they are destined for mediocrity and misery. Most of the time, those things are coupled together. Deep inside, they're miserable. Yeah. And it's and it's everybody's fault. They blame their education, their parents, the economy, politics, their gender. The list is a litany of reasons why it's not their fault. And both people do the opposite. They go, like, you know, like I'm not the tallest person on this basketball team. I get a, I get a beat, I get a hit 90% on my free throw shots so that they're afraid to foul me. And that will be my, you know, secret weapon. That'll be my superpower. That's that's what bold people do. They don't, they, they don't have time for blame. When you don't have time for blame, now you are taking responsibility for everything that happens in your life. And that's when your life starts. I love that.

SPEAKER_00 30:08

I love that. Well, if someone is shy, nervous, and lacks confident, can they learn to become more bold? And how should they go about doing it if they can?

SPEAKER_01 30:20

You start where you are. If you're trying to build your boldness, don't worry about the boldest person that you know and how I don't understand how I can get there. You're trying to create your own, I call it your own personal charisma. It's like you want to bring your full authentic self to the world and not worrying about what everybody, if everybody loves you. Everybody is not gonna love you. That's too tall an order. Okay, when when you and I do speaking, 10% of the audience think we're full of it. Okay. They're like this, right? He doesn't know that's right, boldness, that's nonsense. That's a that's a waste of energy, you know? And then I don't worry about those. I worry about the the the people that I can impact. And I'm I'm I took a sidebar. I want to I want to get back to what I was answering. What the heck was I saying?

SPEAKER_00 31:21

You don't know. I love that man. Yeah. I want to ask you this too, because I think about when you talked about that person who came along and rained on your parade. I had a friend that always was raining on mine. Every time I came up with an idea, he found faults in it. Every time I came up with a an something that I could have been a good idea, just was like, yeah, I don't think so. And I would, I don't know what that was all about, but I noticed there are some people that just are that way. And they miss opportunities constantly. And what do you think is one opportunity that people miss every day because they're afraid to take the first step?

SPEAKER_01 32:03

Oh no, let's so I remembered where I was, so I want to go back. Somebody's really shy. How do they start? Just like you start where you are. Okay. If you can't meet strangers, then you need to just smile at five strangers every day. That's it. Walk around and smile and get used to the fact that not everybody's gonna smile back and that it's got nothing to do with you. They don't know you. So you you start to build this callous of this rejection callous. And then you go, well, I'm gonna start to say hi to people because now I got most people smiling back to me. I put so much positivity out, most of them are smiling. I'm gonna start to say hi because I need more of them not to say hi back. You're aiming for failure. You're going, like, I'm gonna do this till five people don't smile back. I'm then the next time, now that I'm talking, I'm gonna do this till five people don't say hi back. You aim for failure because you've determined that the consequence, the result you're looking for is to fail. And it discharges all of the risk. And then you just keep expanding it, and then you get to the point where you say, Well, I'm saying hi to people all the time. They all say hi back. Uh, I gotta, I gotta up, I gotta up the any. I gotta increase the dosage. That's part of what I teach people is you start at the dosage you can handle. Just like in the gym, you don't start by trying to do 200 sit-ups. You're not you don't put 200 pounds on the bar. You want it's gonna crush you, it's gonna break your ribcage. So it it's it's controlling that dosage. So now the next step is you're gonna start to compliment strangers. Every day, you're gonna walk up to a stranger and in you're deliberately, maybe you don't even drink coffee, but you're gonna go into the line at the local coffee place and compliment the person in front of you. And if that's too much, you compliment the barista. And don't expect anything in return. Don't be trying to turn it into a conversation. You're doing a drive-by, what I call a drive-by compliment. It's like, hey, that beard looks amazing on you. Keep on moving. And eventually what happens is the the most fun part is you've got your compliment prepared. You go, I'm gonna tell her those glasses look great on her. And you turn to her and you say, you know those glasses, they, and then you say, wait a minute, that that necklace you've got on is fabulous. Is is that an is that a family heirloom? In the moment, because you're prepared, now all of a sudden you're spontaneous. You start to do that. You start to trust yourself to take more risk. You say, like, wow, I'm I can fly you know without wings here. I'm I can take more chances, and it feels kind of good. And the the shift that happens, and it's a very powerful shift, is you don't let the mistakes and the missteps and the failures define you anymore. You let them refine you.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Oh, I love that. If someone right now is listening and feels stuck in life, what's one thing they can do to become more bold this week?

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Find a way to go help somebody. You know, and it could be, I mean, just do some act of kindness. Just like the drive-by compliment is you know what happens? You made somebody feel good. It makes you feel good. It's like you you cheated because you stole something that didn't, because you were going, you were coming out of a place of generosity and you get a payoff out of it instantly. Because that's what happens. And I've had people like I the example I use, I I saw this woman, she bright yellow dress, and I and I said, wow, that I mean that color just it just looks amazing on you. And she said, Oh, you know what? Thank you so much for saying that. And she says, I was feeling really down today. And I thought, I'm gonna just put on something bright and see if I can change it. So you've you've really helped me to tell me that was the right thing because I'm starting to feel better. And I thought, I I just felt great because I didn't say, oh, she's not gonna want to talk to me. Because this is this is what, if you're trying to go out and do this, you have to know there's a voice in your head saying, this is gonna be embarrassing. You're gonna get rejected, you're gonna get hurt, they're gonna shun you. And you and you eventually just go, so what? There's no real consequence to it. So go do some act of kindness towards somebody. And it could just be offering. I mean, I do this, you know, if I see an older person in a grocery store or something like that, and they're trying to reach something, I'm right there going, Do you want me to get that for you? Or do you want me to help you put your bags in the car? Whatever it is. And you suddenly realize you're you're being a human being because we're you're the the big challenge, and this is a big thought, is part of how you become an introvert is you think you're not connected to people. You think you are this individual all by yourself. Bold people feel that they are connected to everyone. At whatever place they're at, they don't feel disconnected from everyone. And so when you start to do these little things and you create a moment of human interaction, you suddenly get that we're all struggling, trying to find our way on this path, and we are all in it together. And it and it it just changes you and how you and and your need for affirmation.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Man, that's masterclass. Fred, where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Uh, easiest place is my website, fredjoyle.com, J-O-Y-A-L, spelled like royal. Um, and you can find out, you know, I I obviously do keynotes, I do in individual coaching and and team coaching. Uh, and my book, it's super bold, is on Amazon uh in Kindle and and hardcover and uh Audible. Uh and I mean, and that will, you will get it. You will you will feel it changing, and you'll also understand it. But I'm gonna make you act your way into a new way of thinking. It's not about reading the book, it's about doing the bold actions. Um, so fredjoyle.com is the easiest way.