Why Spinning in Circles Might Make You Smarter | Sheila Thelen | The Sean Trace Show

I had no idea how much the vestibular system could affect the way we move, think, react, and navigate everyday life until this conversation with master figure skating coach and vestibular training specialist Sheila Thelen. We talk about the connection between balance, brain health, cognitive performance, reaction time, aging, sports performance, and independence and why Sheila believes these abilities can be trained throughout life.

Sheila shares how her work has expanded from elite athletes and figure skating into vestibular training for older adults, people recovering from concussions, children with sensory challenges, and military operators. We also explore neuroplasticity, fall prevention, brain speed, motion sickness, and why simply moving your head and challenging your balance may matter more than most of us realize.

What stuck with me most is the idea that getting older doesn’t automatically mean accepting declining balance, slower reactions, or less confidence in movement. There may be more we can actively train than we think.

What ability do you want to still have when you’re 80?

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay. If I cut your foot off, it's gonna be horrible, but you can balance. I can even cut your other foot off. It's really unpleasant. Okay, but you can balance. And we see this all the time with amputees and with you know athletes. It balance comes from your inner ear. So one one it's it's your entire vestibular system. If you have vestibular dysfunction and vertigo and all of the you're crawling for the bathroom, you're not hoisting the cup. You know, you're not, you can't stand up. So vestibular dysfunction, you you're on your knees. You're you're crying. It's it's it's a crawl for the bathroom. It's it's a trip to the emergency room. Uh, it's actually the number two reason to go to the emergency room. One is a heart attack, and two is is vertigo or balance. Something's something's off.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to the Sean Trace Show. I have a really awesome guest with me today, and uh excited to have you share who you are and what you do.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Oh my goodness, it's such an honor to be here. Thank you so much. Uh I'm Sheila Thielen, and it sounds weird, but I'm a master figure skating coach that really figured out the brain and the vestibular system. Like, really, really figured it out and figured out how to apply world-class sports training to the general public, but to everyone with a brain. So it's such an honor to be here. Um, you've had some amazing guests. I I kind of get a little emotional. So I'm I'm really honored to be here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

No, beyond, it's my pleasure. And that Sheila, I had a rough day. Uh long day. And there are days where it's hard to know if what you're doing matters. And today was one of those days for me. So that means the world to me. And uh yeah, thank you for that. I um I'm very fascinated by what you do. And at the end of this podcast, I'm gonna tell a little bit why my day was bad, but I want to get into what you do first. Let's let's rock and roll. Like, what happens? What is the vestibular system, first of all? And what happens when it isn't working properly? And why do some people have no idea it's happening to them? Like, what is that?

SPEAKER_03 2:23

So I always talk about you never know how to spell something until you need to know how to spell something. Right. Archaeology. Until I look took an archaeology class, I couldn't spell archaeology, you know. I'm just saying, but uh vestibular, it's in your inner ear. So you have one on each side, and it really goes from like your eardrum into your vestibular system, and it rolls out to your cochlea. So a lot of people recognize the cochlea a little bit more, that kind of snail-shaped thing. Um, and you'll see a kid with like a cochlea implant that that are deaf. But this vestibular system runs everything. Every like it sounds crazy. It's it's as important as your feet. Wow, I use my feet all day long. Well, I use my vestibular system. So, with that, the vestibular system uh regulates 30 major functions, but the four we talk about the most is it's your entire balance system, it's your cognitive, how fast your brain's processing, it's spatial, and it's sleep. Wow, those are four really, really, really important things to allow.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

It's pretty core stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:37

Yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a core function, like it's it's absolutely everything. So, so we work with everyone with a brain, which sounds kind of crazy to say, but we work with everything from kids with autism, concussions, military performance. I work with a lot of pro athletes, uh, which is super fun. Yet at the same time, love my fall prevention group, aging, Parkinson's, uh kids that don't stay dry at night. It's all tied together. So if we can get that vestibular system working, can we get the nervous system to calm down and everything's just functioning better?

SPEAKER_00 4:19

I think that's interesting too, because when something's not working right, we don't always pay attention to it until it's really gone wrong. And you don't pay attention to things unless there's a signal, right? Um most of us don't feel our skin all the time, right? We just aren't sitting there going, oh, I feel my skin there and there. It's there, it's doing its skinning job, you know, and it's it's happily protecting you from all these things around you, right? We don't always think about that. Uh I did the other week when I was sitting at home and I was really hungry, and I went to the grocery store and I saw, hey, cashews, I love cashews. These cashews look a little different. They had all the skins on. I've never had skin on cashews. And I did not know something about cashews. Cashews are actually closely related to poison oak and poison ivy. And the toxin is in the skin of the cashew, and I was unaware of that. Some people can eat them without any problem. I ate a whole box of these little bastards. And let's just say day one, day two, day three, no problem. Until the toxins started coming out through my sweat. And it was about 70% of my body was covered in a poison oak-like rash. It was excruciating. It was horrible. And I never want to have that happen again. But you know what I realized during that time? I could feel my skin. I could feel all parts of my skin. I was like, oh. And I looked at my daughter and she's like, why are you so grumpy right now? And I said, Do you know how when you hurt something and it just keeps hurting? I said, right now, everything feels like about a million mosquito bites, you know, and I'm just doing the best I can to kind of keep my head on straight. And she's like, ah, but when you talk about the not paying attention to the vestibular system until you have to, that was my immediate thought. You know, the vestibular system is there, it's important. But if you're not, you know, not paying attention to it, what do you do?

SPEAKER_03 6:27

Well, and and you don't realize how much your balance plays, you know, through throughout your day and life. You know, the um we teamed up, I'm really into partnerships. So one of the groups we partnered with was NeuroTracker. It's a moving ball game. They're huge in like um pro soccer in Europe. Like they've just sped up all those players' brains. It's a fabulous product. But they have all the data on sitting and doing neurotracker and standing and doing neurotracker because you don't realize the cognitive load of just standing. And you don't realize that on kids, you don't realize that on adults because you don't have a problem standing. Watch that older, watch your grandma stand there for 10 minutes and she's like, it's starting to weave, you know, like it's the cognitive load that you don't realize is really, really happening in how to protect it and how to run that vestibular system and get that gel moving. And and we spin people. It sounds so funny when I say it like that. Because people are like, So what do you do for a living? And my kids just chirp in. They're like, she spins people. And the general public just looks at me like, What? But boy, all those pro athletes, when you're done with the session with me, and it's only like a five, six minutes of spinning, um, very gently. We start out gentle and then we can move into complete and utter chaos. Um, think figure skating. Okay, think, think those figure skaters and what they can do. Boy, you you can feel your brain. You can feel your balance, you can feel it all improve. When all the data, the pre and the post-testing is fascinating to see even a pro athlete improve their balance, which it seems like I shouldn't be able to do. I shouldn't be able to improve an NHL guy's balance or speed up their brains. I do it every day.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

It's interesting because I have a lot of fear. I have a lot of fear about getting older and you know, losing movement coordination, even independence, because of not being able to keep things sharp, you know? And, you know, yet I hear about some people that they're able to train things. Well, some people say naturally balanced coordinators, while others don't. Like, how do we keep on top of this, you know?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Well, so a lot of it is just being aware of it. And that's where I teamed up with balance tracking systems. So it's just it's just a stand-on plate. It doesn't move or vibrate, you just stand on it, but it tracks 20 seconds eyes open, 20 seconds eyes closed. We add that blue commercial foam to it, and then you stand on that and oh, that's hard. Okay. 20 seconds eyes open, 20 seconds eyes closed. And the data that comes out of that thing, shocking, you know, and even a little bit of what I call the come to Jesus moment. Um, I had my auntie on it one day. I remember we did it on Thanksgiving. I was testing out the new plate, and she literally scored 0% in all four categories. Eyes open, eyes closed, foam eyes open, foam eyes closed, zero percentile. Well, guess who was signed up at Lifetime Fitness on Friday of Black Friday? It's my auntie, who now is doing so much better. I mean, she spins with me every week. She's at Lifetime Fitness, she does water aerobics. She's she's just like, she can walk across grass. That was her goal. And I remember thinking, that's your goal to walk across grass. And now she's trucking everywhere on grass, you know, because it was unstable and she was fearful of it. So, like, I see all these, it's it I have such a crazy day from athletes to aging, you know, with autism kids. You know, it's been really fun to see all of those brains improve their balance and to watch them settle in in comfort. Like they they just feel so much better, and it's it's fascinating to watch it.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

I I think that's interesting because you don't have to go that way. You don't have to age. I love like right now, I'm I'm just absolutely blown away by like JLo. Like, man, her 50 something looks like you know 20 something for most people. It's amazing, but that's a choice, that's an action that someone is taking to be in that space. Granted, she has a lot of money, but you don't have to have tons of money to do that as well. There are cheap gyms, there are ways to learn about diet and healthy living. And I'm sorry, but like anyone can sit down and meditate and de-stress. Like it's available to everyone, you know? But you have to do something instead of nothing.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

Absolutely. And it seems like such an obvious statement. Like, do something, you know. Um, I just read an article talking about act 10 years younger than you are. So, you know, what are you 60? Act 50, act 40. And you know what? People do, and it changes it. It's it's mindset. There's so many pieces of mindset that I feel like in the olden days, my dad would have called it woo-woo. You know, oh, that that's woo-woo. You know, I have to tell you, with pre- and post-testing, there's a lot of things that are absolutely not woo-woo. And and I I read another article too about Rockefeller, it was the first one that convinced everyone you needed to go to only a doctor because only they can get you the pharmaceuticals. If you don't, you're crazy and your children will die. Well, we moved away from some of that great ancient things that kept generations alive ahead of us that weren't pharmaceutical. You know, and and I I look at all of that, and there's different ways we can move through the world healthier that are so easy to implement.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

I love that and completely agree. You know, what's the biggest warning sign that someone's balance is failing, but they're like dismissing it as just getting older?

SPEAKER_03 12:42

Uh there's so many pieces. Like I can see it all the time. And you know, and because that vestibular is tied to so many functions, it it really is easy to stimulate. And and really what's happening through the vestibular system. So um there, there's there's three main parts of the vestibular system. The outside of the canals, and they also refer to it as three semicircular canals. But on the outside of the canals are those little lumpy chunks, and they call them crystals. They're little microscopic little lumpy chunks. On the inside of the canal is a gooey, gooey gel, and that's what the whole goal is to keep that gel moving. It's working 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Okay. And then on the inside of the canal chamber is um like a like a hair follicle. And that hair follicle is what moves the gel. But you can imagine if you ride in a Humvee, or if you do rodeo, like you think you fall off the bowl, you know, like this type of movement is a car accident, okay, uh jogging. You know, there's a lot of ways that those crystals can pop out of place and they really disturb the gel. So like driving on the freeway nice and smooth, or with a whole bunch of parked cars in your way. And that's really the whole key of the vestibular system is keeping that gel moving. Although it hardens as you age and those hair follicles die as you age. And just one more time, watch your grandma, watch your aunties. You know, if they're not moving their head and if they're not keeping this active, and I compare it to kids, like my grandma doesn't sit down on a couch the way a three-year-old gets onto a couch. She's gonna sit down very carefully, hold her head still, keep this calm and steady. Whereas the kids are going to fly, flip, twist, turn, flip, you know, like onto the couch. But we want that. We need those kids to be moving their heads rather than looking at a screen and not moving their heads. And that's part of the whole problems in upcoming generations is they don't they don't move their heads enough. They don't roll down hills and flop and twist and fall off the jungle bars and uh the big circular place. Remember those big spinning plates out on the playground where all the kids fell off them and broke their wrists, like me. Loved it. Best day of my life. Okay. Great day, fabulous day, broken wrist, didn't care. Um but that's where you learn basic physics, too. Of if you stood in the middle, it didn't spin you as hard as out on the edges. Get it. You gotta, it's gotta stay moving. If it doesn't stay moving, the whole system will start to fail. And you can see it, and I'm gonna say too, it's also the anxiety levels. When your brain knows your balance isn't quite right, it sends off the signal of we're dying, we're dying, fight or flight kicks in. You know, what do we do? What do we do? Well, we'll just crank up the anxiety. There's something wrong, there's something wrong, there's something wrong. And it's terrifying, you know, when that anxiety really kicks up for people.

SPEAKER_00 15:46

I love that. And I I love it that you know, you can make a change. You might have anxiety, you might have all this going on, but like you can get out and start moving, you know. And that's one of the things to me that I wanted to ask you, though, is because uh can you actually train your brain to perform better? Is that just a buzzword, you know?

SPEAKER_03 16:05

So we do it all the time. So we teamed up one more time. I love my little team up stories. I have a thousand team up stories. We teamed up with a company up in Canada called Axon, A-X-O-N. It's just a $29 a month app. It's it throw it on your iPad, it's no big deal. And and it just tracks your brain speed. You just do one, two, three, four. You got to move. There's a couple rules to the game, you know. And then the A test is easy, the B test is hard. So the B is more like 1A, 2B, 3C. You know, it's a little trickier. And we can track how fast your brain's moving today. Are you fast? Are you slow? Where are you at? And then go do an activity. Our example, spinning. We're gonna go spin for five minutes really gently. And we come back and we retest it, and the score completely changes, completely changes. I recently sped up an NHL player who told me he only had a year left really in his body. He really thought he only had a year left of pro hockey. And he sped his brain up by almost 10 seconds. It was like 9.73 seconds. Okay. But what would 9.73 seconds do for a professional athlete in a faster brain? Suddenly at the end, he worked with me for about an hour and he looks at me, he goes, Maybe I have two years left in me. You know, like it was really interesting to see him process, like, oh, maybe I could do more, you know, and and he really saw his balance data and his cognitive data and talks about it, it was the type of training he'd never had before and loved it. You know, but it's it's all it's trainable. The brain is trainable. We can speed it up, we can slow it down. Have a couple drinks of alcohol. There you go. We just slowed it down.

unknown 17:53

Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

We'll crank it up.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Right. Well, I want to ask you this next one too, because I I've been thinking about this a lot, you know. Um, you know, how does poor balance and vestibular dysfunction quietly increase the risk of injuries, falls, and cognitive decline and loss of independence? You know, like because you're talking about grandma, you know, is that really tied to it or is there other stuff going on?

SPEAKER_03 18:21

Uh it there's there's other stuff always going on. Like the system was always moving. But we just did a really great case study on an 80-year-old woman. And oh my, it was it was stunning data, you know, and and she's not real active. She's not real active, but she's really good at my spinner with her eyes closed. She can stand on that spinner and let that baby spin at higher rates than my concussion people. So it's funny to see the 80-year-old woman faster than a military guy concussed. Okay, like that. That's it's shocking to watch the differences. And then she she recently um we were over at the open house over at Lifetime Fitness because they just put in a big neurolab with us. Super, it's just lovely. Um, and she at 80 years old outscored a 28-year-old with eyes closed. Now he beat her on a bunch of other things, okay? But on eyes closed, firm surface, proprio, just straight proprioception. She scored better than this 28-year-old kid. And I I was like, no way, man. But she practices, she practices, she trains this every single week. Every week, every Wednesday, she's out there spinning with me. And it's crazy to see how how good she's doing.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

I love that. Yeah, because it it's like people can make change, but I I wonder about the misconceptions. Like, what's the biggest misconception people have about dizziness, balance, and brain health?

SPEAKER_03 19:57

They they just think it it is what it is, nothing you can do for it, you know, which, you know, and I do get that, you know, I I do get that it is what it is, and and aging is aging, but there's some really great examples out there of people that are aging really well, and people that are aging horribly. It you can see it around you. You can absolutely see it around you, uh, and what that's doing to their lives and the people around them. Yeah, like I have a whole thing on it. It's not just you, it's your family, and how that affects your family is is hard. It's it's hard to watch a lot of times within your family.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Right. And like I I have family members that are dealing with some some mild cognitive decline. And I'm trying to tell them you don't have to just accept it. You can do things about it, you know. Doesn't mean you're gonna stop any like everything completely, but you have ways to help yourself. And, you know, don't just sit back and go, you know, it is what it is. You know, um you can get going. Then if someone wants to improve their brain performance, rash, time with confidence, or overall quality of life, where should they start?

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Well, there's there's so many great places to start. I mean, your local gym is the most obvious because you know, moving, once again, moving your your head and moving your ears, moving that vestibular system is for sure connected to to the whole thing. Um, I was talking about in podcast. I'm always kind of like moving around and almost all these things.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 21:32

It's not bad to be moving. That that's a good thing. And and that's also a backstory of like all these kids with ADHD. Um, I one of our friends, six year old, just got diagnosed with ADHD. And I'm like, you mean he's a six year old little boy bouncing off the walls? Um, wow, I kind of think that's what six year old little boys should be doing. You know, you know, like I'm sorry. Like, I think that's the way the world should be working. I don't think that's a bad diagnosis. I think this kid should be moving as much as he wants. He's six. But the whole piece of you know, like I watch my MS patients really stay out of wheelchairs in my mind, years longer with working with my several aging clients that that are nowhere close to wheelchairs and they're nowhere close to struggling. They're out, they're active, they're doing things, they're enjoying, you know, travel. And um even my motion sick ones that came to me originally for motion sickness, uh uh they're on a cruise this week. They're not in town, they're on a cruise. You know, he's not motion sick, you know. So all of these little pieces that make your life better is is is so almost easy to assess these days, especially in in a modern world where there's gyms everywhere. You know, every gym has an open gym, every gym has time and affordability. Uh, your local community centers, your put on some sneakers and off you go. You know, there's so many pieces that are so accessible. And um, we're even actually um we're doing a couple projects with senior active living locations, with once again adding one of my spinners at senior housing level. It's all there, it's it's coming for you. And it in it's out there, available to you.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

I love that. It it is available to you, but you just have to seek it out. And you know, I want to ask you this one too, because you talked about sports, but like how does improving balance affect things beyond sports and athletics? You know, what does it improve in other areas?

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Well, so improving balance, uh, it it it's really a nice little extra touch to your brain. Your brain's like, okay, I feel good, let's go. Let's go garden. You know, we can go out for a walk without the fear of that, uh, of falling. Um, we can go to the mall, all those little pieces. But balance, I actually had um a really uh high-end professor one time tell me, like, well, so if you approve their balance, so what? And I kind of looked at him like, what do you mean, so what? This is fabulous. It's and he goes, Well, what good would it do to a kid? And I just kind of looked into the camera like he was a moron in a kind and loving way. You know, I was like, what are you talking about? As a coach, do you want to coach the slow kid or the fast kid? Who's gonna do better? The kid who's five steps behind and the game's gone to the left, and that kid's going to the right. You know, all these little things of situational awareness and kids' awareness and sports and speed and processing, it's all tied together. Um, although I have to jump a little bit. I had a professor tell me the balance came from your feet. I'm like, no, sir, it comes from your inner ear. He's like, no, no, it comes from your feet. I'm like, no, sir, it comes from your inner ear. And he goes, prove it with a paper. Which kind of cracks me up because he kind of can't think for himself. And I said, Well, um, I can prove it without a paper. If I cut your head off, you can't balance. You're a terrible athlete. Okay. If I cut your foot off, it's gonna be horrible, but you can balance. I can even cut your other foot off. It's really unpleasant, okay, but you can balance. And we see this all the time with amputees and with you know athletes. It balance comes from your inner ear. So one one, it's it's your entire vestibular system. If you have vestibular dysfunction and vertigo and all of the you're crawling for the bathroom, you're not hoisting the cup, you know, you're not, you can't stand up. So vestibular dysfunction, you you're on your knees. You're you're crying. It's it's it's a crawl for the bathroom. It's it's a trip to the emergency room. Uh it's actually the number two reason to go to the emergency room. One is a heart attack, and two is is vertigo or balance. Something's something's off.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

That's wild. I didn't know that. That's really wild. I want to ask you this one too, because what's the most dramatic transformation that you've seen from vestibular training?

SPEAKER_03 26:13

I I will say it's my older patients. Okay. And it's also, and weirdly, it's kind of like the spectrum is it's my younger kids and it's my older patients. Although we're doing a big research project with the University of Minnesota from the neurology department. Like, I have to say it slow because I had when they called me, I'm like, what? There's such a thing as a neurologist, which makes total sense. Like, like, if you think about it, you're like, oh, that makes total sense if you think about it. And we're doing a project with um a whole batch of 10-year-old kids that still don't stay dry at night. So these kids have no confidence in themselves. You know, they're not going to buddies' houses, they're not spending the night, they're not going to grandma's, you're too big a hassle. You know, these kids have no confidence in themselves. And the University of Minnesota called me and they're like, hey, we think you're the missing link. So we're about to start a huge case study here in Minneapolis, spinning the kids, seeing if we get that nervous system to quiet down so that they can have success in staying dry at night, which is something 10%, 10% of 10-year-olds. It's a huge number, just keeps going up and up and up. And it that's millions of kids. You know, that's millions of kids we could be helping to get everything to process better and correctly and change their lives. So yeah, we're super excited here in Minneapolis.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

That's really, really cool. I was thinking about this other thing though, too, because one of the things too, um I'm curious like what people can be doing today. They're at home. You say going to the gym. Are there any other things that people can do to strengthen vestibular system and protect their future health?

SPEAKER_03 27:57

So I I always talk about just spinning yourself. And and the most famous example is the whirling dervishes. If you if you look up whirling dervishes, it's it's a centuries old, it's almost a religion of them spinning for hours on end. And and they you talk about those old ladies live forever, you know, that are whirling dervishes, man. They're they're doing great in life. And so we have done research of spinning on um, like spinning by yourself, and for sure your balance does improve. Absolutely. Yet at the same time, on my gear, we showed really huge changes in balance. Uh, and part of that is you had to the cognitive load of having to spin yourself, which is its own challenge, but to adjust to the mechanics of our equipment, much less our fly. We have a we have a slow standing system where you can hold on to, but then we have a fly option. Uh it's a brain melt, I have to tell you. Like it's it's a brain melt of the chaos of flying and and spinning at the same time. Uh, to the point, all my Navy SEALs and pro athletes, it's it's the chaos training that's added with that fly motion. Um, even NASA was like, how do you do that? You know, NASA called me. They're like, how do your athletes not end up dizzy? Think figure skating, not dizzy from all that spinning, is because we've trained their brains. So it for sure all ties together. But what can you do at home right now? You can spin. It's easy. Just arms out and start spinning. And start slow. Start at one turn, go to two turns, get to three turns. Next week it's four turns. And one or two times a day, it's so easy. It is kind of fun. There is a dopamine because you see people giggle. There's something funny about a special ops guy giggling. Okay, there's something really, really entertaining about that.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

I think that's so interesting. Well, it leaves me, you know, you know, I like that was the thing I was gonna say, ask how do athletes and military operators and children with sensory challenges and other adults all benefit from this similar type of training because you're telling me they all benefit from spinning.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

They all do. It's crazy data. And and and the fun part is we always talk about getting our gear in the hands of like one genius, okay? And that one genius can help a thousand people within their industry. What's their specialty? Is it is it military? Is it autism? Is it old ladies? You know, what's their specialty? Concussion specialists. Crazy data coming out of the Mac Alliance out in Delaware that they're combining our gear with HBOT, so hyperbaric for concussion clients. Um, the original goal for their paper was like 12, 13 people, and they're at over 100 and had to bring in University of Delaware because they just had so much data coming off of the combination of vestibular and hyperbaric tied together. Great, fantastic data. And it's really exciting to think of how many people that can help. But that goes back to why we're really into partnerships, yeah. Because of course I think my gear is great, but I do think when you add in red light therapy and oxygen and oh boy, there's a lot of other products out there, you know, some neurogames, you know, I think you've really created something extraordinary to help both rehabilitation and performance are the same thing. So when we treat it as the same thing, I treat the 80-year-old client the same way I treat a six-year-old in a pro athlete. We all have the same brains. It's just looking at rehabilitation and performance as the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

That's so interesting. Uh I want to ask you this question too. Um, what drives you to keep pushing this mission when most people have never heard of the horse vestibular, you know?

SPEAKER_03 31:58

I'm obsessed. And I'm sure that you know what when I hear your other client, you know, I've heard your other interviews and stuff, I think we all carry that same obsession. To the point, the the running joke is that I am a terrible CEO because all I care about is outcomes. The money's fine. Yeah, we got the money, we made payroll. Go us, we made payroll. Um, but I I'm obsessed to the point my family is sick of me. You know, because someone at the airport will be like, so what do you do for a living? And oh man, kids are like, no, no, no. I'm like, oh, hey, look at this. Watch my videos, you know, like suddenly I'm showing videos at the airport like a lunatic. Um I love this. My obsession with spinning. And and in short, can I sum it up as does spinning make you smarter? Yes. Does spinning make you faster? Yes. Does spinning make you happier? Yes. And these short little summations are what I I just know how many people we could help because I I do it all the time. And and all of my partners and all of my master trainers around the world are seeing these this data too, and and just outstanding outcomes. And I just can't stop talking about it.

SPEAKER_00 33:17

That's awesome. I and I'm curious too, because like I want to know about science, though. Like, what does the science actually tell us about the brain's ability to adapt, improve, and recover throughout life? Because not just vestibular stuff, but it seems like there's a lot more going on with the brain's ability to adapt and bounce back than we know.

SPEAKER_03 33:37

So I I I know several trauma specialists, and I was talking about being traumatized by the trauma specialists. Right. They're traumatizing people, I just have to say. Um, one of the great examples that was given to me years ago is like if you have an arm injury, like like a really nasty, horrible injury to your arm, your your circulatory system will work around the injury so your hand doesn't fall off. You know, like, oh yeah, no, my hand's fine, even with this giant injury upstream. Yet for the brain, they talk all the time about like when you have an injury and they always kind of hold their fist to their head, you know, like they they always seem to, that's always like the hand motion of it is you have a brain injury, the brain hardens to protect itself, where that's where you get the PTSD and the chronic flashbacks because you don't have that neuroplasticity to move around the injury. The injury just sits there and persists and persists and persists because the brain hardened. So, could we through that there's so many great therapies out there, like the EMDR group, and there's so many great psychologists out there. But through spinning, can we recreate neuroplasticity to get the brain to clear the trauma? And and my concussion people are my favorite examples that um in a lot of my videos, I have this one gentleman that we call him Thor, because the dude looks like Thor. Okay, like big boy, the hair, the beard, like he looks like Thor. You gotta look up my videos. He's amazing. But he talks about the brain bleed from the snowboarding accident, and then like 50 little concussions on top of that over the course of it, like he couldn't stop slamming his head into everything the walls, the door, the car, the bed, the trunk, the like walking down the hallway, you know, like this guy couldn't stop getting concussions because his vestibular was so far off from the first accident that it just kept recreating more and more. And we talk all the time about the first concussion's bad, but the 300th one is really bad. And that's your pro sports, football, rugby, you know, and that whole discussion of CTE of I don't need a paper to tell me if you have 10 concussions, you you have health issues. If you have a thousand concussions, you really have health issues. Like I don't, I don't need a paper to tell me that. I I get that. That's unhealthy and that's unsafe for your brain. So it are these things fixable? Yeah, especially with a combination of products, you know, and and there's some really great concussion clinics out there right now, but there's also some really great Alzheimer's and other research out there. Although I do want to add one little thing that bugs me. In general, it takes 17 years to bring these products to market. That's why 17 years. Does your mom have 17 more years? Does your kid with autism have 17 more years? Uh, there's some really great things out there that are there to help people. You just have to search them out a little bit because there's the the nerds got paid during the 17 years, but the general population did not benefit.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

So true. It's so true. And I think that one of the things that we have to do is figure out how we can get stuff out to people, how we can get them the things they need to heal and to feel good. But I want to ask you, where can people go to find out more about you and what you do?

SPEAKER_03 37:13

So I my favorite is LinkedIn. Like, I love me some LinkedIn. And that's how I met you. Like, to be honest, is I really follow you on LinkedIn. Love LinkedIn. Um, I just think it's just a far more serious platform. Um, I'm on LinkedIn. Of course, the website uh is obvious, uh spinyourbrain.com. Uh, we're also under vestibular training services, uh, which is all over Instagram and Facebook and all that other good stuff. But our our real focus really is kind of LinkedIn. Yeah. We joke. Don't don't message me on Instagram. I'm never like it could be a couple days.

SPEAKER_00 37:52

I understand good at it. Entirely.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

I just don't care.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Yeah. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 37:58

Yeah, no, we love LinkedIn. But yeah, go to website spinyourbrain.com. But I have to thank you because these opportunities really are coming from podcasters and and really great interviews. And I talk all the time about like people are like, what's your marketing plan? I'm like, I love me podcasts because I really feel like we can have important discussions that we just can't get in the general media these days.